i found buddhism!!!!!

[Jeremy Bong]

Jonesboy,

The Vajrayana traditions of China, Korea and Japan, while smaller and less prominent than Indo-Tibetan tantric Buddhism, are characterized in part by the utilization of yidams in meditation, though they use their own terms. One prominent ishta-devata in East Asian vajrayana is Marici (Ch: Molichitian, Jp: Marishi-ten). In the Shingon tradition of Japan, prominent yidam include the "five mysteries of Vajrasattva," which are Vajrasattva (Jp. Kongosatta), Surata/Ishta-vajrinī (Jp. Yoku-kongonyo"慾金剛女"), Kelikilā-vajrinī (Jp. Shoku-kongonyo"触金剛女"), Kāmā/Rāga-vajrinī ((Jp. Ai-kongonyo"愛金剛女"), and Kāmesvarā/Mana-vajrinī ((Jp. Man-kongonyo"慢金剛女").[6]


That's only practice in Indo-Tibetan tantric Buddhism. You only promote Tibetan Buddhism. So no one here like to practice it.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

So you think that pure awareness, no mind, awakening/enlightenment are the same, I don't, I see them as being different...

You cannot help me experience anything regarding divine beings, they played a part in my life as a child but not now, I grew out of those beliefs. Each to their own, if you need them then use them....

Life is amazing and when you see it as a string of events strung together, forever changing and adapting.... who needs yidams

I don't believe I mentioned anything about awakening/enlightenment are all the same.

Pure awareness is a made up term, no mind..is that made up also?

What does awakening or enlightenment mean to you? Seems to have different meaning to different people.

I did say the different traditions have differing end points now didn't I?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Silver

Sure, lay 'em on me - (hopefully not too lengthy).

Getting a handle on them and being able to explain them in 'western' terms would help a whole lot.

Now some of this might be a little long but I will do my best.

First lets start with what Jesus said and let's see if we can find anything that is similar.

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

That motion and rest is the same thing as the Heart Sutra Void=Form and Form=Void.

The place where the light came into being by itself would be emptiness.

Daoism can really help with this one.

"We have come from the One, from the place (Dao) where the One cam into being by itself and then established (itself), and (we likewise) appeared in their image"

And then, it goes to basically, how can you prove that? Because we know that is the place where motion = rest and is also both.

Motion is energy/light. Rest is perfect void. So we all came into being from the place where void=energy/light, and we call that place the Holy Father.

So we see similarities between what Jesus has said, Daoism and Buddhism.

So what is that light/energy and since we are talking Buddhism is there any reference to energy/light?

DZOGCHEN
THE SELF-PERFECTED STATE
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the base
is not defined only as being void, but is explained as having
three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial
wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

The third of the three primordial wisdoms is energy. Its
characteristic is that it manifests without interruption.4 The
explanation of energy in Dzogchen is fundamental to understanding
the base. All dimensions, whether pure or impure,
material or subtle, are manifestations of one aspect or
another of energy. To explain how both transmigration and
enlightenment originate, three ways in which energy manifests
are described. These three modes of energy are called
"tsel" (rtsal), "rolba" (rol ba) , and "dang" (gdangs), names
that cannot be translated into Western languages.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ght=primordial

So now we know that energy is the base of our Primordial State and is what all things in all dimensions are made of.

So what about Hinduism?

Let's look at what Kashmir Shaivism has to say.

The Heart of Siva

The Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms. The Heart,

says Abhinavagupta, is the sacred fire-pit of Bhairava.1

The Heart is the Ultimate (anuttara) which is both utterly transcendent

to (visvottirna) and yet totally immanent in (visvamaya) all created things.

It is the ultimate essence (sara). Thus, the Heart embodies the paradoxical

nature of Siva and is therefore a place of astonishment (camatkara), sheer

wonder (vismaya), and ineffable mystery. The Heart is the fullness and

unboundedness of Siva (purnatva), the plenum of being that overflows

continuously into manifestation. At the same time, it is also an inconceivable

emptiness (sunyatisunya).2 The Heart is the unbounded and

universal Self (purnahanta).

http://community.livingunbound.net/i...heart-of-siva/

I hope I broke that down to show that everything is light/energy. Without that realization you can't become one like Siva or realize the Primordial State or as Jesus would say, become a Son of God.

[Jeremy Bong]

Jonesboy,

These are only guessing work and it's nothing that can connect to the building up to the spiritual energy. They're inner physical energy. But not spiritual energy. Hahaha , wrong guess, no wonder their attainment of uplifting of spirituality is so low and the spiritual energy levels is so low.

Someone wants to be God-like or Buddha-nature that's dreaming( for he mustn't go to the wrong course). Or wrong practice of energy).

[sky]

My understanding..
We came from the light... God, Supreme or whatever you choose to name it , the place where the light/energy came into being, creation as we experience it with our senses.
Creation in us ,God/Supreme or whatever you name it is forever changing energy, MOTION. (Yin/Yang)
Consciouness never changes, REST. (Wu Wei )

[Jeremy Bong]

Dharma energy levels.(I paste it here to show you what's energy which is good to your spiritual energy). It's sure not the kundalini, chi gong or other Dao type of energy......

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Someone always asking about how to practice of energy by ourselves? Or through practice we gain different types of energy. It's especially the practice of strength or energy inside a body. But they're not the energy that can uplift your spiritual energy and ability. They're only acquired by your physical body energy. Or maybe just a little bit of help to your spiritual abilities or energy levels.

So human may wonder what type of energy is the right energy that can rise up one's spiritual energy? Inside the body or that can be viewed by consciousness inside one's body is not that energy wanted by us to meet our requirements. That's only the physical energy of our inner self that can't help for uplifting our spirits abilities.

The right one should come out from our hands. Nevertheless hands is connected to our bodies and the energy can comes out of our bodies. When we put our two hands together and pulling between them there's an energy force between them. And the force leaks the identity of one's dharma energy level up to which standard or quality or ability. It's the perfect indicator of one's dharma energy level. That's even anyone who don't know dharma also can have the lowest level of red energy between his hands.

My Cupidson's highest dharma energy has go up to more than 11group higher dharma energy levels. But some of them have been leaped over the pattern of energy levels because it's not surprised that my Cupidsons' dharma energy is too high so he skips many dharma energy levels to reach his own energy level.

They're,(1) red, blue, green, yellow, orange, rainbow 7 colors, golden, white [ "a total of eight levels in this set"] and (2) universe red, universe blue, universe green, universe yellow, universe orange, universe golden, universe white and (3) blue lightning, ..... golden lightning, white lightning.... (4)half moon...... golden half moon, white half moon, ....... (5)golden small sphere, white small sphere, ..... (6).....lower orange universe plus golden sphere, to..... lower golden plus golden sphere.... (7)lower blue sea waves plus golden new moon, golden sea waves plus golden new moon ........ (8) ..... mountain ......., (9)...big sphere, ...... (10) ..... half sphere to the right side plus long and sharp narrow energy between two hands,........ , (11)..... half sphere to the left side and long sharp narrow energy between hands...... These are so many energy levels of human or Gods can have achieved. And my dharma energy is the highest level. That's my dharma energy is increasing together with my Cupidsons' highest dharma energy level.

The lowest level of dharma energy is red, then blue .... and there's no limit for the highest or there's no "mountain top" level of dharma energy level. It's because no one knows what is the highest level dharma energy. All levels of dharma energy should be from red go up to white and then it changes to another type of energy. And it can go on to more than ten types of energy levels. It's hard for human to have energy level up to blue. In fact only third eye can see this color of the energy.p

So when someone tells me that he knows about energy to uplifting our energy and spirituality then they should know about these spiritual energy but not the physical energy like the chi gong or kundalini practice . They're only the martial art or inner self physical energy but not the spiritual dharma energy.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I don't believe I mentioned anything about awakening/enlightenment are all the same.

Pure awareness is a made up term, no mind..is that made up also?

What does awakening or enlightenment mean to you? Seems to have different meaning to different people.

I did say the different traditions have differing end points now didn't I?

I'm sure Buddha did experience ' Pure Awareness ' but as it's consciouness without thought then I presume he wouldn't have spoken but who knows.

Enlightenment..... what is it....
I don't know because I haven't achieved it.

' Pure Awareness ' ...... what is it....
Consciouness without thought.

Yes they are all just labels of different experience from different people.
Some think pure awareness is enlightenment, some think no mind is not thinking, when you experience these things then you try to explain them to others by giving them a name, but if you haven't had these experiences yourself then it's hard to comprehend....

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

I'm sure Buddha did experience ' Pure Awareness ' but as it's consciouness without thought then I presume he wouldn't have spoken but who knows.

Enlightenment..... what is it....
I don't know because I haven't achieved it.

' Pure Awareness ' ...... what is it....
Consciouness without thought.

Yes they are all just labels of different experience from different people.
Some think pure awareness is enlightenment, some think no mind is not thinking, when you experience these things then you try to explain them to others by giving them a name, but if you haven't had these experiences yourself then it's hard to comprehend....

No tradition thinks that the void, no thoughts is enlightenment.

If you do some research you will see over and over again that the void is a trap and is not the goal.

You experienced the void "quiet mind", "the gap between two thoughts" and think you have achieved it all. Done..

That shows why a teacher is important, to help the student know there is more and not to make such mistakes.

I also just gave you a couple of good descriptions to enlightenment. None of them mentioned no mind, no thoughts etc..

[Silver]

That was an interesting read, Jonesy. They all say very similar things, religions that is, so I think I've always felt they are remnants of how we humans have found living life from a material world perspective. The thing that seems like a void at times, is the straightforward way our spirits seem to observe and operate.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Silver

That was an interesting read, Jonesy. They all say very similar things, religions that is, so I think I've always felt they are remnants of how we humans have found living life from a material world perspective. The thing that seems like a void at times, is the straightforward way our spirits seem to observe and operate.

Thank you Silver.

I think they say a lot of the same things as well. That can upset people who are very traditional.

Glad you enjoyed it