Buddhism and Magical Powers

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by sky123

Drop all beliefs is a belief There is nothing wrong with beliefs if they give value to your life...

That is a great comment. Very insightful. I would argue beliefs and knowledge are two different things but it doesn't matter. You point is 100% true. Accepting a belief, making it yours and dropping a belief, discarding it is the same thing. The "person" acts in both. I am describing not being a person anymore. So it doesn't matter what beliefs are there or not there. There is no person to be affected by them.

The mental world, I don't have to associate with it or care about it. I don't think it's the beliefs that add value to your life, all they do is all value to being a person, self knowledge however adds value.... as it's gives one the road map to freedom and peace.

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Thank you, but your end results and what true being is, is not an accepted view by any tradition.

Traditions cannot accept views, only persons can.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Traditions cannot accept views, only persons can.

Okay, how about accepted views that have been handed down for thousands of years and been confirmed over and over by the billions that have practiced them.

Or we can go with yours...

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

That is a great comment. Very insightful. I would argue beliefs and knowledge are two different things but it doesn't matter. You point is 100% true. Accepting a belief, making it yours and dropping a belief, discarding it is the same thing. The "person" acts in both. I am describing not being a person anymore. So it doesn't matter what beliefs are there or not there. There is no person to be affected by them.

The mental world, I don't have to associate with it or care about it. I don't think it's the beliefs that add value to your life, all they do is all value to being a person, self knowledge however adds value.... as it's gives one the road map to freedom and peace.

Thankfully Buddha taught the ' Middle Way ' love it......

Originally Posted by sky123

Myths do have their purpose for some, but not for me....

Buddhism never emphasizes that side of things, and for good reason. Everyone knows that what is considered "magic" is rote for the course, unnecessary for liberation, and is the focus of ego and desire, not Nibbana and release from suffering.

Buddhism denies nothing, nor encourages such. Of the thousands of references on Access to Insight, the OP chooses one that serves only his own agenda.

Here's a nice tale from a legendary Master:

The evening of April 2, 1981, after Luang Pu had returned from a ceremony in the palace and was resting at the royal monastic dwelling in Wat Bovorn, a high-ranking monk who was also a meditator came to visit and to converse with him about the Dhamma. His first question was this: "They say that a person who was a yakkha in a previous life, on returning to a human birth, can study magical formulae and be very powerful in whatever way he uses them. How true is that?"

Luang Pu sat right up and answered,

"I've never been interested in that sort of thing at all. But have you ever meditated to this point: hasituppapada, the movement of the mind where it smiles on its own, without any intention to smile? It happens only in a noble one's mind. It doesn't happen in ordinary people, because it lies beyond the conditions of fabrication — free in and of itself."

Ajaan Dune Atulo
https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai...ftsheleft.html

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by janielee

Buddhism never emphasizes that side of things, and for good reason. Everyone knows that what is considered "magic" is rote for the course, unnecessary for liberation, and is the focus of ego and desire, not Nibbana and release from suffering.

Buddhism denies nothing, nor encourages such. Of the thousands of references on Access to Insight, the OP chooses one that serves only his own agenda.

Here's a nice tale from a legendary Master:

The evening of April 2, 1981, after Luang Pu had returned from a ceremony in the palace and was resting at the royal monastic dwelling in Wat Bovorn, a high-ranking monk who was also a meditator came to visit and to converse with him about the Dhamma. His first question was this: "They say that a person who was a yakkha in a previous life, on returning to a human birth, can study magical formulae and be very powerful in whatever way he uses them. How true is that?"

Luang Pu sat right up and answered,

"I've never been interested in that sort of thing at all. But have you ever meditated to this point: hasituppapada, the movement of the mind where it smiles on its own, without any intention to smile? It happens only in a noble one's mind. It doesn't happen in ordinary people, because it lies beyond the conditions of fabrication — free in and of itself."

Ajaan Dune Atulo
https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai...ftsheleft.html

I would agree, Magic the use of rituals, formulae and words is much different that the realization of as taught by the buddha.

Such things are dualistic, you need a thing and it is all ego based or local mind.

There is another teaching of the Buddhas about not showing others because they will not believe, also as is taught with meditation states of mind or anything else in Buddhism. If you desire a thing you will not achieve it. It is only when you let go of the desire that you will realize them, be that states of mind in meditation or …

Buddhism doesn't emphasis such things, but it also recognizes they are real and a natural part of deeper realization.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

I would say the opposite. You are already doing the work. You have to stop doing the work.

The work is creating and asserting this "person" with it's beliefs and opinions and assertions and demands.

There are 7 billion persons on this planet. One less will not be missed. Now I'm not saying don't fully exist and live. I am saying just stop being a person. Too many already.

You and me have spent hundreds of incarnations and thousands of years sustaining these persons we become. Look where it has got us! Back on earth as another person. I say it's a good time to stop this cycle of birth and rebirth right now.

It's been raining here for a week and today is warm and sunny. I went to the park and saw a toddler get out of his parents car and run across the green grass squealing with delight.

That child, in that moment of joy, was not a person. They were not focused on any ideas or beliefs or religious or spiritual dogma. They were not thinking of something they needed to do.

Our minds are so burdened with these ideas we are not ok, we need to meditate, pray, practice this or that.... the original premise we accept is wrong. That we are not ok!

Yes we are unhappy, and aggressive, and full of desires and sufferings, but that's all because we are a person. Drop that and all is solved.

This is what enlightened teachers were pointing at. This is the whole point of something like the Satipatṭhāna Sutta.

But the person reads the Sutta....and so stays lost.

' But the person reads the Sutta....and so stays lost. '


So what is the purpose of Suttas Rain? Maybe you read them and stay lost but not all. I would say they have the opposite effect....

Originally Posted by sky123

I would say they have the opposite effect....

Agree.

JL

[sky]

Originally Posted by janielee

Buddhism never emphasizes that side of things, and for good reason. Everyone knows that what is considered "magic" is rote for the course, unnecessary for liberation, and is the focus of ego and desire, not Nibbana and release from suffering.

Buddhism denies nothing, nor encourages such. Of the thousands of references on Access to Insight, the OP chooses one that serves only his own agenda.

Here's a nice tale from a legendary Master:

The evening of April 2, 1981, after Luang Pu had returned from a ceremony in the palace and was resting at the royal monastic dwelling in Wat Bovorn, a high-ranking monk who was also a meditator came to visit and to converse with him about the Dhamma. His first question was this: "They say that a person who was a yakkha in a previous life, on returning to a human birth, can study magical formulae and be very powerful in whatever way he uses them. How true is that?"

Luang Pu sat right up and answered,

"I've never been interested in that sort of thing at all. But have you ever meditated to this point: hasituppapada, the movement of the mind where it smiles on its own, without any intention to smile? It happens only in a noble one's mind. It doesn't happen in ordinary people, because it lies beyond the conditions of fabrication — free in and of itself."

Ajaan Dune Atulo
https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai...ftsheleft.html

How lovely to have a royal monastic dwelling to rest, I'll make do with my bedroom

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would agree, Magic the use of rituals, formulae and words is much different that the realization of as taught by the buddha.

Such things are dualistic, you need a thing and it is all ego based or local mind.

There is another teaching of the Buddhas about not showing others because they will not believe, also as is taught with meditation states of mind or anything else in Buddhism. If you desire a thing you will not achieve it. It is only when you let go of the desire that you will realize them, be that states of mind in meditation or …

Buddhism doesn't emphasis such things, but it also recognizes they are real and a natural part of deeper realization.

I'm sure that one day you will learn what the Buddha really taught, jonesboy.

JL