How much do you understand Pride?

[Jyotir]

Hi Honza,


Pride is simply the purblind falsity of the little 'ixam' (ego) assuming the status of the true I AM.


~ J

[django]

In Christianity, pride is the worst of the seven deadly sins because it taints every virtue, and makes salvation harder to obtain. Although the seven virtues counter each of the deadly sins, pride is the sin which is able to affect them all in a way that the others cannot.

I don't necessarily agree that the east underestimates it if they rope it in with ego, as ego is seen as the major obstacle in Eastern thought as well AFAIK.

[Miss Hepburn]

Funny, I don't see pride as being any different as anything else that takes one away from God or...keeps one separate.

Jyotir?
Is any other distraction different than another? hahaha!

In Christianity if pride truly was considered the worst...it would take
over the obsession of gay focusing.

[django]

The seven deadly sins were arrived at in the early days of Christianity when some holy men - the desert Fathers - lived lives as hermits and every so often would come and discuss the problems they were facing to the abbot or whoever was in charge. These were made into a list, and they found then that pride was most often described as the greatest problem. What Christians do today is very often far removed from those early Christians, perhaps some of the monks like the Franciscans get close, and some Eastern Orthodox hermit orders.

I prefer the word ego myself, but I do suspect that it is the threads of ego that are woven through all the other 'conditions' that keep us separate from our God.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Funny, I don't see pride as being any different as anything else that takes one away from God or...keeps one separate.

Jyotir?
Is any other distraction different than another? hahaha!

In Christianity if pride truly was considered the worst...it would take
over the obsession of gay focusing.

Hi Miss H,

In most traditions, negative cognition and action are generally ascribed to ego/separative consciousness. However, pride may be seen to be more egregious, especially if a premium is placed on humility, simply because pride is more obvious in the social context and it is usually observed as a projection - not as internalized - and therefore has effects on others more directly, implying superiority which then justifies various forms of entitlement, aggression, oppression, condescension, etc., putting some burden on others which also becomes immediately apparent.

So socially, it may seem like many obvious collective ills are the result of pride and its secondary manifestations, while a number of other ego manifestations could be seen to maintain and promote internal suffering and debility, but those are not so directly obvious to, or impinging on others (jealousy for example).

Also, pride is a powerful defensive mechanism which often prevents the mitigation of ego in and of itself - probably the best reason for the ‘premium’ on it as the ‘big bad’.

It could also be that in some traditions such as Christianity, ‘pride’ may actually be the equivalent term for ‘ego’, which would explain this emphasis. (would be interesting to hear Molearner’s take on this)

I tend to agree with what you are suggesting though, that all ego manifestations are impediments, distractions, potential problems, can morph into one another, and have secondary manifestations. It’s really ego that is the primary issue, not the various secondary manifestations (such as pride) which could be variable in terms of detriment, depending on specific ‘preference’ and relative context.

I think it really comes down to the degree of specificity different traditions capture and utilize in their delineations and descriptions of functional consciousness. To me, it seems that the Indian systems are unparalleled in this regard, and so I tend to prefer the clarity afforded by that depth simply as a matter of practicality.


~ J

[Sarian]

Originally Posted by Honza

What is the spiritual significance of Pride? It holds an important role in the Old Testament, it is considered the cardinal sin by the Christians, the East suspiciously avoids mentioning it (correct me if I'm mistaken) or ropes it in with ego and thus underestimates it.

How do you understand it? To me it is a BIG issue. It lies at the crux of spiritual reality. I will wait till I hear what you have to say before I say more.

I didn't read all the replies but my bf and I were just discussing the old testament at lunch today and how many Christians will tell you that it doesn't count anymore since Jesus came and they now have the new testament. So why bother with the old testament anymore? And now that there's a new testament, why wouldn't there even be a newer, updated one (although people always seem to pick and choose what they want to believe anyway out of the bible).. Pride, I think, can be good in the right context. Say you created something wonderful and you take pride in your creation. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think if you created something wonderful and then said "Oh, it's just not good enough...oh, it looks like ****" then you come across as a pity monger or going about getting compliments by putting your creation down. I think if you get to where you think so highly of yourself and deem yourself better than others, then you are just plain arrogant, self-centered, possibly a narcissist.. and pride is not such a good thing and to show some humbleness and humility is a good thing.

Oh darn C-r-a-p word...

[Light the Human]

Pride is a healthy trait for a person to have. It is not "sinful" "evil" or any other spooky word.

[Robinski78]

Originally Posted by Light the Human

Pride is a healthy trait for a person to have. It is not "sinful" "evil" or any other spooky word.

Id half agree with you there Light the Human... But with pride being so closely related to egotism, one would need to keep watch on their self appointed attributes... Don't you think???

[Within Silence]

A priest asked a wise man; "What is man's greatest sin?"

"Seeing men as sinners" he replied.



A priest said to a wise man; "I find it sickening how full of pride humanity is, do you think they will ever reach such humble states as ours?"

"The greatest sickness is not knowing one is sick." He replied.

[Robinski78]

Couple of good sayings there Within Silence Thanks for adding them...

Robbie....