Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 13-09-2017, 01:14 AM
Gem Gem is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,967
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by linen53
Hi Silver, I'd have to concur. I think the concept of karma is in place for some who need it at their stage of development, but as a soul ages they no longer need that crutch. Same goes for "sin".



In Buddhist philosophy, at least, Kamma means volition or intent. The philosophy is, the circumstances of now are the results of past kamma. but kamma is the intent one holds here and now. Intents (or kamma) are the primal urge to move the mind in some way.

Hence, unfortunate circumstances are not 'bad kamma', but having negative intents, such as hatred, greed and so on toward such circimstances can be called 'bad kamma' because that's 'suffering'.

That sufferer will spread their negativity around with their force of will by creating conditions that are harmful to others, who then also start to express hatred, greed and so forth - i.e. 'suffer'.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 13-09-2017, 02:49 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,960
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracey
a case of nature verses nurture. nurture wins over nature with behavioral gene patterns. at least that is what i was told. and will be finding out as my twins become adults.

I think there is much more truth to this than we realise, for all but the most marginal cases of severe genetic aberrance, malformation, or maladaption.

It applies to the 99+%. We so often feature the <1% cases because they are so extreme, so maladapted, so amoral, so violent, and so difficult to successfully rehabilitate. But for the 99%, it is nearly always the case that a context of love, acceptance, peaceful engagement and resolution, good diet and health, and good life skills generally can mediate almost any genetic tendency. Just day-to-day, continuing over the course of a lifetime.

Hence the power of what we refer to as spirituality, alongside a healthy, equitable, engaged community and society, and a sustainable, balanced, and affirming culture.

Where we still need to improve about 100% as a species is in becoming better educated regarding the needs of those folks whose burdens are much more severe and who do require aids, supports, and structures (including due to genetic predispositions, whether mental, emotional/spiritual, or physical) to approach parity and equity with the rest of us whose burdens are more universal and/or less severe. With appropriate social will and supports given, we can better assist many more to more fully self-actualise and thus better attain the fullness of their humanity.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 13-09-2017 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 13-09-2017, 03:29 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,960
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
In Buddhist philosophy, at least, Kamma means volition or intent. The philosophy is, the circumstances of now are the results of past kamma. but kamma is the intent one holds here and now. Intents (or kamma) are the primal urge to move the mind in some way.

Hence, unfortunate circumstances are not 'bad kamma', but having negative intents, such as hatred, greed and so on toward such circimstances can be called 'bad kamma' because that's 'suffering'.

That sufferer will spread their negativity around with their force of will by creating conditions that are harmful to others, who then also start to express hatred, greed and so forth - i.e. 'suffer'.

A nice explanation of the larger context of the reality of ownership and responsibility, in all "realms".
Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 13-09-2017, 03:31 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,960
  7luminaries's Avatar
I also wanted to comment more generally on all the prior posts in the thread, all of which had something good and right and true to say about each poster's thoughts and experiences. Thank you ALL for sharing and making this such an enjoyable thread

I wanted to share my thoughts on how, IMO, a belief in something (whether one's experiences, and/or a tradition or philosopy, etc) and also a belief in nothing or in not-something are equally all beliefs. No one is more factual or freeing than the other, nor are any of these mutually exclusive in their totality, IMO. In other words, they are all good, and where we each are is a product of our own journey and our own individual ways of being.

I myself prefer the term resonance, as in I resonate with this or that experience, belief, or philosophy BASED ON a combination of both experience and awareness, in my case each equally being a blend of heart and mind (in service to heart) -- I cannot separate these ways of knowing without doing damage to my spiritual integrity.

As I see it, what is true very generally for me in this sense is largely very generally true for all or most others. Meaning, everyone has a different way of knowing or apprehending What Is, which comprises their own blend or flavour of all of the above. But IMO it doesn't make one way of knowing more or less factual or more or less liberating than any other, per se. It is IMO more that there are many paths to God/Source/Centre, and (a main point for me is) that when we are each ready to assume the mantle of ownership and responsibility for our own journey, then we will do so. Which gets at least in part to what Gem and many others have touched on, each coming from different places and understandings relating to where each of us are on our journeys.

Put another way, IMO, the foundational reason for being is for each in his/her/its own way to realise the interbeing of all that is, which equally means to realise all that we are individually, at centre. So...we could say karma is What Is, as is authentic love and presence (be here now), as is (for us) individuated consciousness with periodic incarnation, and so forth. Each of these illuminates the fullness of What Is in a different way. Or, we should say, as we understand it, these things appear to us to reflect or touch on different aspects of What Is.

Peace & blessings all
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 13-09-2017, 04:22 PM
Kioma Kioma is offline
Guide
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: The Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 610
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by linen53
How can we know any solid concrete facts? There are none! It's all speculation gathered from ours and other's experiences. But there is no proof of anything which, actually, I think is kind of sexy. It keeps the suspense suspenseful.
I love this quote.

People can work very hard to put the world in boxes, to try to make it more understandable. Concepts like Karma, sin, and so many others can give us a feeling of control over a very large and uncertain universe - but what do we really know? It has been said knowledge is power, and there certainly are many 'knowns' which benefit us greatly today - such as computer technology - but what about the mysteries of our own existence?

All I really know for sure is that I exist - but even that is quickly destroyed with the simple question, "How do you know?" Simply persisting is no answer, because that could stop at any instant. The simple truth is that the world seems consistent (most of the time) but we don't know, and ultimately can't know anything absolutely - and I agree with Linen that is a wonderful thing.

Living itself is a daily leap of faith. The primary spiritual virtues are designed to cultivate this attitude without overtly stating it. Faith, humility, generosity, kindness, gratitude - go down the list, and every one of them in some way contributes to living openly with the gaping uncertainty that I don't really understand any of it, and says that's okay, in fact, it's far better than living in a known therefore limited universe where nothing ever happens that you don't already know everything about!

Of course Linen said it MUCH better than I - I just wanted to articulate my appreciation.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 13-09-2017, 09:53 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,978
  linen53's Avatar
Gem, that's what Sky eluded to in post number 12. You expanded beautifully. Thank you!

7luminaries, in a perfect world; unfortunately we live in a far less than perfect world and that 1% (I agree with your statistics, btw) usually are ignored or spurned by the other 99%. The 99% just feels uncomfortable with what they term as imperfection. I celebrate with those who don't believe as much as I do with those who do believe in a spiritual existence.

Your post #44 is so full of love, understanding and acceptance. It warmed my heart to read your thoughts. You say you resonate with this or that, I call it a vibration outside my self that vibrates something inside me. Kind of like ringing my bell.

Kioma, I'm just a person of few words. I call it laziness.

How do I know I exist? Good question. Love that!
__________________
Deb

If you hit rock bottom, start picking up rocks.

By embracing my imperfections I am becoming perfect.

Itís through the cracks that the light gets in.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 14-09-2017, 05:18 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,365
  r6r6r's Avatar
Thumbs up Absolutes Along With Faith Exist In Disovering the Facts/Truth

Quote:
Kioma--All I really know for sure is that I exist

Hi Kioma. Any carpenter who has hit their fingers with a hammer know they exist.

Any auto mechanic who has ripped open his knucle knows they exist.

Many examples follow.

Quote:
- but even that is quickly destroyed with the simple question, "How do you know?"

Central nervous system

Quote:
.... but we don't know, and ultimately can't know anything absolutely - and I agree with Linen that is a wonderful thing.

Here is absolute we do know, that, there can only exist 5 regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe and capital U in Universe means is inclusive of scenarios involving a finite set of multi-verses i.e. tangentally connected local universes as the finite whole Universe.

r6
__________________
"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 14-09-2017, 06:13 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,978
  linen53's Avatar
r6r6r I don't even pretend to know a 1% of what you understand and try to convey on this forum. I feel honored you are giving your take in this thread.

When you refer to bodily injury you speak of the body being alive, not the center of that body that makes it the individual. Previously, I was talking about is the consciousness that is left over after the body ceases to exist. That's the part that I can't prove that exists and continues, though, personally, I believe it does.

I don't know what a symmetrical polyhedra is either but I do understand and believe in multi-verses. My pea brain can picture planes (universes and sub universes and maybe even sub-sub universes) of existence that vibrate on different levels. Countless planes way beyond my wildest dreams or imagination. That's one of the points I don't even try to define because I don't think I could come close to definition.
__________________
Deb

If you hit rock bottom, start picking up rocks.

By embracing my imperfections I am becoming perfect.

Itís through the cracks that the light gets in.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 14-09-2017, 06:33 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
Master
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,365
  r6r6r's Avatar
Talking I'm A Soul Man... Sung to Tune In Movie Blues Brothers

Quote:
linen53--r6r6r I don't even pretend to know a 1% of what you understand and try to convey on this forum. I feel honored you are giving your take in this thread.

Hi Linen. Some is facts, some is speculation based on facts.
Quote:
When you refer to bodily injury you speak of the body being alive, not the center of that body that makes it the individual.

When you can better specify the location and properties of this alledged "center" I can better address with what I know, or think I may know.


Quote:
Previously, I was talking about is the consciousness that is left over after the body ceases to exist. That's the part that I can't prove that exists and continues, though, personally, I believe it does.

I believe being alive is part of the definition of "consciousness" i.e. more complex consciousness is a biological and biologicals/souls are inherently alive.

The simplest consciousness is twoness, otherness. Ive covered that in many threads around here over the years. Humans being the most complex conssiousness with woman being more complex than man.

What remains after we die is inanimate execept for the bacteria and viruses, fermions, bosons, gravity and dark energy.

Quote:
I don't know what a symmetrical polyhedra is either but I do understand and believe in multi-verses.

There exists no evidence for multi-verses. I included them just for people like you who believe they exist. I no of no evidence that states the cannot exist and Ive covered my thoughts more elaborately on that issue in many other threads here at SF over the years.

Genes/codons are molecules, that, when animate are a synergetically cohesive whole and entertain/encompass a biological/soul life, or a virus{ RNA or DNA, never both }.

Individually genes are not alive. Viruses are a twilight organism that only aniamate and alive seemingly alive when inside a biological/soul cell.

r6
__________________
"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 15-09-2017, 05:38 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,960
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by linen53
Gem, that's what Sky eluded to in post number 12. You expanded beautifully. Thank you!

7luminaries, in a perfect world; unfortunately we live in a far less than perfect world and that 1% (I agree with your statistics, btw) usually are ignored or spurned by the other 99%. The 99% just feels uncomfortable with what they term as imperfection. I celebrate with those who don't believe as much as I do with those who do believe in a spiritual existence.

Your post #44 is so full of love, understanding and acceptance. It warmed my heart to read your thoughts. You say you resonate with this or that, I call it a vibration outside my self that vibrates something inside me. Kind of like ringing my bell.

Kioma, I'm just a person of few words. I call it laziness.

How do I know I exist? Good question. Love that!

Linen -thank you so much for the kind words, and right back atcha

Peace & blessings,
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums