The possibility of truth

Originally Posted by [FONT=Tahoma

Mountain-Goat]
I don't seek enlightenment, nor am i stuck.

You were never included or excluded

I don't see words are limited, i think it's a person's limitation in their ability to use words.

I take it from this attempted quote of mine that these are your words...

You were never included or excluded

..and i will stick to my original statement that you did include me in your theory because you said...

That's were everyone gets stuck.

..and as far as i know, i do fit into the category of 'everyone'.
So, i reiterate...

Originally Posted by M-G

Don't include me in your theory. I don't seek enlightenment, nor am i stuck.
I was once severely slowed down in the quagmire of being attached to many beliefs.
Then in my early 30's in the experience of a marriage breakup, for the first time i saw the self created trap of beliefs,
and have slowly detached myself from them ever since.
Why would i willingly entrap myself again with the miriad of beliefs regarding enlightenment.

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Speaking of the balance between literal interpretation and a deeper and transparent feeling of something authentic

Yes, speaking of? Are you going to speak of the balance between literal interpretation and a deeper and transparent feeling of something authentic?

Originally Posted by peteyzen

with respect, what other point of view can they offer?

This is very well observed in my view.

I can try to to explain to you how it is for me by all means, I should not, however, by any means suggest or imply to you that how it is for me should be how it is for you also.

Because there is a line crossed in the case of the latter in so far as I am virtually saying that how it is for you is wrong or incorrect and that how it is for me is how it should be for everyone.

So, to you, the Universal Truth is a myth

Yes. The only constant is everything changes. in my experience.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Yep, and that is what I said, more or less, it doesn't matter, we could go on talking about the truth for ever and never really knowing the truth, it can only be experienced by the individual, but the experience is never the truth.

But Robert, do you see a flaw in the bolded part?
I do, in that not only talking about truth without really knowing truth, but you also say that even experiencing truth is not real truth.
Aka, there's no way to know truth. aka universal truth.
Of which i agree with you as i currently subscribe to the concept that truth is a value assigned to a thing by the individual.
Truth is whatever a person declares something to be, there is no realm of truth independant of humans.

Mountain Goat,

You summed it up in your illustrative quotes to me in another response.

This is you quoting examples of the type of response we can sometimes illicit.(and that I have illicit ed)

"If you have not experienced it, you would not understand."
"You can't comprehend this with the mind, or language is not up to the task of describing it."
"You are still lost/trapped in conditioned mind."
"You are still operating from ego self, false self."

I don't even know how I am supposed to begin to respond to such posts, and so .. Well ..I'm topped up on crazy and don't need any more for a while.

Not meaning to offend the sheeple....err...acolytes who wish to embrace this profound and divine proselytizing.

Originally Posted by Xan

There is also a singular abstract truth that any of us may discover, whether that moment has come for us or not.

How do I know it is real and universal? In this true knowing there are no ideas, no images, no beliefs, no ordinary emotions, no definitions, no meanings, and nothing to compare with anything else... nothing relative and no mind, in other words.

Good One. That'll be deep dreamless sleep then(the Void) .

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Mountain-Goat

But Robert, do you see a flaw in the bolded part?
I do, in that not only talking about truth without really knowing truth, but you also say that even experiencing truth is not real truth.
Aka, there's no way to know truth. aka universal truth.
Of which i agree with you as i currently subscribe to the concept that truth is a value assigned to a thing by the individual.
Truth is whatever a person declares something to be, there is no realm of truth independant of humans.

Hi James, yes I see what you mean, I see the experience of what is called truth as nothing more than what IS, or simply just pure Essence, or Consciousness if you want to use that word, the experience that is felt beyond that mind is just that, an experience, like experiencing love, the experience is just what is felt through the mind body, the experience is never what IS, so we can only point to this experience that awakened us, or love that has changed our life forever. This is the truth that I have experienced and the only truth that I have ever known, that is from within. Sorry if I miss read you.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Neville

I can try to to explain to you how it is for me by all means, I should not, however, by any means suggest or imply to you that how it is for me should be how it is for you also.

Because there is a line crossed in the case of the latter in so far as I am virtually saying that how it is for you is wrong or incorrect and that how it is for me is how it should be for everyone.

This is a misunderstanding, Neville. There is no 'should' in anything I say, and I don't say or believe anyone is 'wrong' in how they perceive reality. I simply speak about an entirely different way of experiencing, in the essence of being.

It may a moot point because this doesn't come about by choosing but it may show up spontaneously, and I think it does for many people, unrecognized... which is why I talk about it. Next time, someone might notice and give it full attention.

Xan

[Xan]

Neville: Good One. That'll be deep dreamless sleep then(the Void) .

Yes... the delicious void.


The only constant is everything changes. in my experience.

Yes. Everything in the universe of forms and energies changes. The abstract truth is formless... eternally whole and unchanging.


Xan

Originally Posted by Neville

Yes. The only constant is everything changes. in my experience.

So....did you read further than that into my post? Wouldn't mind your feedback since I address that you regard the Universal Truth as hence being a myth. (Page 3 #22)

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Neville

Good One. That'll be deep dreamless sleep then(the Void) .

What doesn't make any sense to me is if anyone is so intouch with void they wouldn't be here in this forum in the first place and reacting emotionally. We're all learning. No one is above the other with 'truer' experiences.