The possibility of truth

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by amy green

So, to you, the Universal Truth is a myth since what can be experienced will be static. A snapshot nevertheless can afford a valuable glimpse of the structure and dynamism of this truth which would not otherwise be available.

I have had such a mystical experience whereby my ego dissolved into the Oneness - I perceived how everything is intrinsically interconnected....like a massive web. I was stunned and deeply affected by this. It was a long time ago but is not something that can ever be forgotten.

I too have had this experience. This experience of melting to a great oneness. Also, however I have had the experience that the self, the individual is of complete importance. How do reconcile. I am one and I am many. I am both.

[no1wakesup]

There is great importance and investment from the time we picked up the path or journey to enlightenment. It seems that two things are happening. Intellectually, we are gathering more knowledge and information which, more often then not, translates into "I'm becoming more spiritual", becoming of course another label. The second thing that occurs is that we indeed taste this infinite with the insights we practice via the countless tools and techniques. From those qualities there is always a potential for something else to unfold ...not by a personal effort but by a sudden insight which sees beyond any conceptual interpretation.

That's were everyone gets stuck. We tend to get busy immediately in trying to "broker" our spirituality (jumping from one teaching to the next) and in doing so we must inevitably negotiate enlightenment as well (or put it off).

In our spiritual quest, we secretly and unconsciously intend to keep the comfortable and certain idea of me and my life in play no matter what. Yet you as individuality can not go into that which has no duality. So we maintain the security blanket the ego has completely invested in and not willing to give up from any perspective of subjective duality.

It is that predicament and investment which is threatened. The message which we can all resonate with and feel on the deepest level is quickly filtered and processed and must in most cases determine "that's not in line with my continuance or survival"

The words, or thoughts which we believe belong to us, will conveniently interpret and conceptually confirm that continuity.

I read this quote many years ago. Thought it put it all in sync as far as the limitation of words go

"If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. Whether you are interested in Moksha, Liberation, Freedom, Transformation, you name it, you are interested in happiness without one moment of unhappiness, pleasure without pain, it is the same thing. We don't want to be free from fear. All that we want to do is to play games with it and talk about freeing ourselves from fear. Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you'. There is nothing there inside you other than that. When the movement in the direction of becoming something other than what you are isn't there any more, you are not in conflict with yourself."

U G Krisnamurti

Originally Posted by adamkade

I too have had this experience. This experience of melting to a great oneness. Also, however I have had the experience that the self, the individual is of complete importance. How do reconcile. I am one and I am many. I am both.

This experience you had of the individual being of complete importance....is this a concept, belief or something profound that occurred to you? The reason I ask is that, as am sure you know, the ego is said to be illusory (not who we truly are) since we are essentially spirit.

[no1wakesup]

There is great importance and investment from the time we picked up the path or journey to enlightenment. It seems that two things are happening. Intellectually, we are gathering more knowledge and information which, more often then not, translates into "I'm becoming more spiritual", becoming of course another label. The second thing that occurs is that we indeed taste this infinite with the insights we practice via the countless tools and techniques. From those qualities there is always a potential for something else to unfold ...not by a personal effort but by a sudden insight which sees beyond any conceptual interpretation.

That's were everyone gets stuck. We tend to get busy immediately in trying to "broker" our spirituality (jumping from one teaching to the next) and in doing so we must inevitably negotiate enlightenment as well (or put it off).

In our spiritual quest, we secretly and unconsciously intend to keep the comfortable and certain idea of me and my life in play no matter what. Yet you as individuality can not go into that which has no duality. So we maintain the security blanket the ego has completely invested in and not willing to give up from any perspective of subjective duality.

It is that predicament and investment which is threatened. The message which we can all resonate with and feel on the deepest level is quickly filtered and processed and must in most cases determine "that's not in line with my continuance or survival"

The words, or thoughts which we believe belong to us, will conveniently interpret and conceptually confirm that continuity.

I read this quote many years ago. Thought it put it all in sync as far as the limitation of words go

"If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. Whether you are interested in Moksha, Liberation, Freedom, Transformation, you name it, you are interested in happiness without one moment of unhappiness, pleasure without pain, it is the same thing. We don't want to be free from fear. All that we want to do is to play games with it and talk about freeing ourselves from fear. Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you'. There is nothing there inside you other than that. When the movement in the direction of becoming something other than what you are isn't there any more, you are not in conflict with yourself."

U G Krisnamurti

Originally Posted by adamkade

I agree. We all have a different perspective on the truth. It is our perspective that changes as we evolve. It is up to the person receiving your words to decide what measure of truth is expressed through them.

I have no problem with that. I am just sharing here - not out to convert. I don't claim to have had a unique experience anyway.
It resonates with others who have had mystical experiences - like yourself, as indicated in your post above.

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

There isn't such thing as your own truth, there is just truth, and that is all we are, a true teacher speaks from that truth, not his or her own so called truth.

There is only one's perspective of the truth. We must speak from this perspective. We can not speak from another's perpective, nor should we try too. When we hear a truth and think: "hey that makes sense" then we can choose to make it our truth too. It then becomes your truth.

The truth is like a child that has been adopted by two parents. At first the the child is thought of as "other" and not part of the parents. As time goes by the child becomes a part of the two parents. Then eventually their comes a time when the two parents think of the child as being theirs. Then there comes a time when they have forgotten that they even adopted the child. They can not even remember a time when the child was not with them.

[Xan]

I hear the same frequently voiced arguments in any thread about universal truth... essentially saying there is no such thing... or if there is you only get one lucky glimpse. Clearly there are different views of what life is about and what 'truth' means, and this is how I see it:

There are many relative truths and beliefs people have regarding life and what works best for them.

There is also a singular abstract truth that any of us may discover, whether that moment has come for us or not.

How do I know it is real and universal? In this true knowing there are no ideas, no images, no beliefs, no ordinary emotions, no definitions, no meanings, and nothing to compare with anything else... nothing relative and no mind, in other words.

There is silent unboundaried awareness as pure love, and only that.

People have expressed their experiences in this delicious presence in spiritual writings for thousands of years, so for whoever intimately knows this truth... you're in good company.

They and I also say, after the first glimpses, with continued spiritual practice in meditation and letting go we may become aware in this foundation of everything else all the time, during daily life. It's always here, the only difference is one's awareness in it.


One might consider, even remotely, that this could just be a possibility for them, rather than blindly defending against it.

Opening the mind to what we don't yet know is always a good thing.


Xan

Originally Posted by amy green

The reason I ask is that, as am sure you know, the ego is said to be illusory (not who we truly are) since we are essentially spirit.

Yeah, it's said, and if what people say is incorrect, then any calculations/conclusions based on incorrect data will also be incorrect.

Originally Posted by psychoslice
There isn't such thing as your own truth, there is just truth, and that is all we are, a true teacher speaks from that truth, not his or her own so called truth.

Is that true?

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

There is great importance and investment from the time we picked up the path or journey to enlightenment.

That's were everyone gets stuck.

Don't include me in your theory. I don't seek enlightenment, nor am i stuck.
I was once severely slowed down in the quagmire of being attached to many beliefs.
Then in my early 30's in the experience of a marriage breakup, for the first time i saw the self created trap of beliefs,
and have slowly detached myself from them ever since.
Why would i willingly entrap myself again with the miriad of beliefs regarding enlightenment.

I read this quote many years ago. Thought it put it all in sync as far as the limitation of words go

I don't see words are limited, i think it's a person's limitation in their ability to use words.