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  #921  
Old 05-04-2018, 12:35 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
To exemplify..



This is what was said.
The ending, only applicable to those who want her to look within and change her behavior to appear more spiritual..

So if you son't want to do the latter, don't voice the former.

With Love
Eelco

I have said several times that it's only to be aware, nothing more. It's easy to construe this as having to change behaviour because that's drilled into all of us from everywhere, be better, self improvement, spiritual growth and so on.

In this thread it isn't that - it is just being aware of what is going on with yourself.
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  #922  
Old 05-04-2018, 01:22 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Gem hello there. Yes, true that. We can only truly exercise mindful conscious choice from this place, from this centre.

So I agree that this is the initial state , that of calm centredness and non-reactivity, from which we then take mindful conscious choices.

In order to take a mindful choice, equanimity again comes into play, that mature fullness of equanimity where we employ or found equanimity on lovingkindness, and vice-versa. We consciously take choices that align our highest good equally with the highest good of the other, or of others, or of all (that is). Depending on the scope or context of the choice.

The way I see it is, this experience as it is in this moment is the way it is and I have no choice about that... But I can be aware of it which means I would act mindfully, or oblivious to it which means I would act mindlessly.

Quote:
Living mindfully in this way requires both balanced, calm centredness and also active engagement with lovingkindness, in alignment with the highest good of all (to the best of our knowledge/ability/awareness, which is always evolving).

Yes, the 'metta' pertains to all things, a greater good, beyond the scope individual preferences.

Quote:
Wow..spot on. Beautifully said. Agreed. There is greater or lesser closeness or distance between folks, and thus a greater or lesser personal love, based on a deeper recognition and personal knowing of the infinite worth and value of all beings...and of our unique and irreplaceable nature.

But nonetheless, this personal and interactive love, whether present or absent, has no bearing on the foundational love we are that is present within us & which we bring to bear by conscious choice in our words and deeds.

Yes, we are founded in universal love: the 'outpouring' as I call it. For most of us, if not all of us, there are obstructions to it coming through our mind and body. The old stuff we have held onto, and stashed away in the shadows out of sight will be opened to the light of our conscious awareness, which is like something heavy and dense dissolving in the body/mind, and that place being filled with the light.

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Agreed...if it's an addiction, it's an obstruction and you need to "get clean"...and then it's back to equanimity and centreness and building your connections to others based on an authentic love of being...i.e., on a balance of both equanimity and lovingkindness. In alignment with the highest good of all and not just getting what you want in that moment from whomever

True. Personally I don't have close interpersonal relations, which is symptomatic of my own particular life issues, and some serious shortcomings in social skills - so these obstructions are there, and I am aware of the heaviness of them, and they do need to be 'cleansed' - but I dare say that all of us have our own particular niggly pigglies that became deeply ingrained, which we can't resolve by a simple choice.

The complication with it is, the choice to make it go away only indicates an aversion to it, which is the reactivity toward it, and this puts the healing mechanism on a deeper level than the issue itself. As Einstein put it, we can't solve the problem from the level of the problem, and in the case I speak of here, the problem isn't actually the problem itself. The deeper issue is the aversion reaction to the problem. Using myself as an example, the aversions I have to my loneliness or isolation are the deeper layers, like a self-hatred toward a particular aspect of my persona. Solving the apparent problem by having very close relationships won't address that issue itself - and will only manifest as disfunction in said relationships. The resolution is ironic in the sense that I become indifferent about the problem, not in a pretentious or disassociated way, but in a way like I could laugh the idiosyncrasy, be cool with it, regard it in a neutral way, or IOW, be unaffected by it. Regard it with equanimity - which means I no longer mind if it is there or not, so I let it be 'as it is' - and when we say, 'Let go,' we really mean, 'Let be'.
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  #923  
Old 05-04-2018, 03:28 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Naturesflow, that was just so very nicely said...and I really do get what you're saying. For me, it really is just about being present to what is with the authenticity of who you are.

I think I feel the fullness of myself more in this way, but it is a fullness that allows for the fullness of all others and all else, as well.

Peace & blessings
7L

Indeed, what you become and know of yourself to be, will often reflect itself as it knows and is "aware".

How do you gauge the awareness within yourself in relation to authenticity? How do you define that for you?

How would you define authenticity in relation to the stream of human conditioning, behaviours and sleepy sams in their unconscious state in relation to others as well?

Is authenticity about being yourself as you are, or does it include potential of yourself as one? If this being the case someone who is open and aware of something in themselves that meets a reflection unaware of themselves will most often open a gap of awareness if one is reflecting and aware of themselves in this way. Then you notice the reactive stances that come into play, rather than looking deeper into the self to become aware of themselves beyond reactions, defensiveness or all the other aspects of reactiveness that seems to come into play...
Many here are arguing when you suggest certain ways of communicating that are more mindful and help one to be more conscious and aware of themselves, that this is not necessary. My feeling on this is those who are wish to be against the directive approach, are more prone to want to defend, react to their own feelings, or they go into their head giving reasons as to why it shouldn't be so, rather than become more aware of themselves in the reflection of what is causing their reactions and then to move beyond that point. If your aware of yourself in this way, then often I find it becomes a non issue and one moves more consciously aware of themselves beyond reactions and more grounded in authentic awareness of themselves aware.
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #924  
Old 05-04-2018, 05:17 PM
Raziel Raziel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
Nah best not..

Even that single line is telling ..

I've seen the mask slip & I've seen the actor convinced that they are indeed the part that they play despite pronouncements to the contrary.

It's perfectly reasonable & more than acceptable - it's only the perfection deception where the problem lies.

The delusion can harm more than one - which is the only reason I have ever highlighted it's continuous presence.

I know, but still it seems some find the need to hide anyway ...

~

It isn't a victory for me it's an observation - yet because I am curt it is able to be dismissed.

Perhaps, just perhaps I may have seen all of these excuses, mental gymnastics & false presentations before?

Perhaps Raziel has seen these tricks often enough as to simply not tolerate supporting lies any longer & that is the reason for the curt responses?

#Surely not?
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Last edited by Raziel : 05-04-2018 at 06:23 PM.
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  #925  
Old 05-04-2018, 05:32 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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I think it is kind of misleading to define it as just being aware.

The subject there ( the one who is aware ) is not the subject that eventually flowers into being.

Selfless is not selfless at all. The revolution is in what you experience yourself as being.

Are you your thoughts? No
Are you the body? No
Are you your memories No
Are you your beliefs? No

It's like the difference between standing in my room or your room. If you are in your room, you feel like all that stuff around you is yours. If you are standing in my room, you know the stuff around you is not yours.

That is what it is about. When you no longer experience the stuff in your room as yours. When that happens to the final degree, you discover what was there beyond those walls and door....
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  #926  
Old 05-04-2018, 06:33 PM
Raziel Raziel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
I think it is kind of misleading to define it as just being aware.

The subject there ( the one who is aware ) is not the subject that eventually flowers into being.

Selfless is not selfless at all. The revolution is in what you experience yourself as being.

Are you your thoughts? No
Are you the body? No
Are you your memories No
Are you your beliefs? No

It's like the difference between standing in my room or your room. If you are in your room, you feel like all that stuff around you is yours. If you are standing in my room, you know the stuff around you is not yours.

That is what it is about. When you no longer experience the stuff in your room as yours. When that happens to the final degree, you discover what was there beyond those walls and door....

I always envisioned it as we are all essentially cosmic amnesiacs

There are things that can trigger our memories of the universal energy to which we once belonged & there are things that can be suggested to us that we perhaps presume are also memories ... yet they fall short.

I'd say that we are all of what you described (I do understand what you mean however) but we are also so much more - too much to really comprehend infact.



.
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Now, as before - you criticise your own work."


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  #927  
Old 05-04-2018, 10:26 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raziel
Even that single line is telling ..

I've seen the mask slip & I've seen the actor convinced that they are indeed the part that they play despite pronouncements to the contrary.

It's perfectly reasonable & more than acceptable - it's only the perfection deception where the problem lies.

The delusion can harm more than one - which is the only reason I have ever highlighted it's continuous presence.

I know, but still it seems some find the need to hide anyway ...

~

It isn't a victory for me it's an observation - yet because I am curt it is able to be dismissed.

Perhaps, just perhaps I may have seen all of these excuses, mental gymnastics & false presentations before?

Perhaps Raziel has seen these tricks often enough as to simply not tolerate supporting lies any longer & that is the reason for the curt responses?

#Surely not?

In your unguarded moment and in my reflection of your words, I realized silence was my gift, even as my mind thought otherwise reading what your mind is thinking.

I see you onto everything, it must get tiring in this way of your seeing, understanding, knowledge, awareness, tricks and slips...

I like the ability to shift myself from needing to show my own internal processors sometimes. It actually supports me deeper to let go.

Knowing the intention of the other and reasons why do what they do, doesn't always have to be assumed through ideas past.

I suppose you could say this comes back to being 'self aware' in each moment as Gem is expressing. My self aware moment showed me how words and silence can go hand in hand of the moment. I have a choice to listen to myself in every moment, more consciously aware of myself.
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder

Last edited by naturesflow : 05-04-2018 at 11:54 PM.
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  #928  
Old 05-04-2018, 10:33 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
I think it is kind of misleading to define it as just being aware.

The subject there ( the one who is aware ) is not the subject that eventually flowers into being.

Selfless is not selfless at all. The revolution is in what you experience yourself as being.

Are you your thoughts? No
Are you the body? No
Are you your memories No
Are you your beliefs? No

It's like the difference between standing in my room or your room. If you are in your room, you feel like all that stuff around you is yours. If you are standing in my room, you know the stuff around you is not yours.

That is what it is about. When you no longer experience the stuff in your room as yours. When that happens to the final degree, you discover what was there beyond those walls and door....

Is it about just being aware or aware of yourself in all your sharing to share more aware of yourself inclusive of the surroundings aware?

Wherever you are being aware of what is there can move you right where you are, rather than perceiving there was something beyond to discover, when the discovery is within the whole shared space, not perceived as yours and mine, but the whole aware of yourself right where you are.

I think they call this, present moment awareness, deepening in what is (inclusive of the whole room) what moves from that point is what moves from within itself as that...

Maybe we are saying the same thing? Your looking at beyond the room as the discovery, I am looking at deepening into the awareness of myself in that room as the discovery..
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #929  
Old 05-04-2018, 10:55 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
I think it is kind of misleading to define it as just being aware.

It's being aware of what's going on with yourself.

Quote:
The subject there ( the one who is aware ) is not the subject that eventually flowers into being.

It basically means being conscious of what you're doing as opposed to 'know not what you do'.

Quote:
Selfless is not selfless at all. The revolution is in what you experience yourself as being.

Are you your thoughts? No
Are you the body? No
Are you your memories No
Are you your beliefs? No

It's like the difference between standing in my room or your room. If you are in your room, you feel like all that stuff around you is yours. If you are standing in my room, you know the stuff around you is not yours.

That is what it is about. When you no longer experience the stuff in your room as yours. When that happens to the final degree, you discover what was there beyond those walls and door....
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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  #930  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:45 PM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
It's being aware of what's going on with yourself.




Quote:
It basically means being conscious of what you're doing as opposed to 'know not what you do'

That's a good point, because if your caught up in the awareness of what you know, but not what your doing in your knowing, it can be quite subtle and overlooked and you can quite easily miss those vital bits that integrate your knowing of what is moving in you deeper to move differently.
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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