Is There More To It Than Just Me?

Whe I am awake it seems so real,
When I am in dreaming slumber it seems like fantasy,
When I am in deep sleep where there is nothing I am with God.

Originally Posted by Honza

Hi Dreamer,

I suppose what I was trying to say is that God does not really have a definition such as I AM. He is either defineless or all definitions.
God is as much likely to say YOU as I, he has no need to be I AM because he just IS.
Its people who define God as such and such or so and so. We give him OUR name. In a sense we start creating God in our own image or by what we understand.
I would agree that the Human race is I AM, but would not apply that to God as his NAME or DEFINITION.
People are I AM but that does not mean God is. He is above and beyond I AM. But the term helps people understand God because they can relate to it.

Regards, Honza.

That is the point of using the words I AM, that God just IS, that nothing other than I AM exists. I think you are equating the words I AM with the what we usually refer to as ego. I AM traditionally has been used to mean an immediate, absolute presence of Being, ie, God. God Is, I AM. He is described as so in the Bible as well.

Do you consider your theological view of what I AM means, God means, etc, also a definition? That is, is your view, a view or is it the view, the only view?

Originally Posted by Honza

The reason I ask the question is that if 'I AM' then is there more to all then just me?
I think a 'science' of reality based on I AM would ultimately be untenable without other dimensions coming into it.
Other dimensions such as 'YOU ARE' and 'GOD IS' etc.

Because if the only science of reality is I AM then I would literally be the centre of the universe, I would ultimately have absolute power AND the only thing I should think about or concentrate on is MYSELF.

Thats why I actually do believe there IS more to it all then just me; I actually think its about YOU too. Above and beyond me and you (above and beyond I AM and YOU ARE) it is really all about GOD.

If GOD is I AM then all he need do is sing his own song and need never worry about you.
But I feel there is MORE to God then I AM.
And at the end of the day the SCIENCE of God dictates that you must be too.
Something like the HOLY TRINITY whereby there is ME and YOU and OUR FATHER above and beyond us; a three dimensional realty.

I AM always struck me as being ONE DIMENSION and thats all.
There is more!!!!

I think you are confusing ideas. Saying that I AM one with God or I AM generally, does not mean or make the person the centre of the universe on one level but it does on another. I think you are trying to make them mean one thing. There are mistakes that people make, they are imperfect in thoughts and deeds, that is true. However, they are perfect in the fact that God created them...that is, they are the stuff of the stars, of heaven, of God. In that sense, I AM exists within all of us. The theory goes then that we have forgotten this...in coming to this awareness, we realise that we have purpose, meaning, that we are precious, free to act and not react, free to live life, instead of being driven by our ignorance and fears.

The idea that Eastern and Western philosophies are different in an essential way, is false. Many think that Jesus was this pure person and we can never measure up. Nonsense, if this was true, then his mission here was nothing more than to build up his own ego. Jesus came to teach or rather remind us of our Divine spark, that we could be like him, that we are called to be like him. Instead we have become idol worshippers. Believe in the name of Jesus and it doesn't matter how monstrous we are, because afterall, Jesus came here to build up his own ego, didn't he? I think we worship Jesus and forget the message.

I say this as a Christian myself. Its true, all I have said is nothing more than theory, but than again, its no better or worse than any other theory. As provable and unprovable as any other.

As for Satan and hell, another man made definition.

Greetings..

"Core truths".. Each religion holds there to be a higher power, a source, or a cosmic divinity.. each religion assigns this concept a personality(s) or a ritual.. each of these assigned qualities reflect the cultural ideologies and historic cultural developments.. "core truth", there is a force or power greater than the individual.. it is that simple acknowledgement that is common to almost all religions (spiritual awareness), the remainder is culturally variable.. Spiritual awareness is that inherent "knowing" that we are part of something greater than our individual selves.. Science tells us that the Universe is a sea of energy behaving in many unique and magnificent ways.. i sense that we, as "individuals", are just unique aspects of that same energy... like snowflakes, each one unique but made of the same stuff...

What is the probability that, in this vast universe, a supreme power would set such intricate rules for such a miniscule spot of inhabitants.. is it more likely that those inhabitants would observe the natural rhythms & cycles and develop systems of behavior and discipline to correspond harmonically with their environment...

Do you notice that religions tend to offer an escape from the "pain and suffering" of life, a common desire of the masses.. is it likely that religions are formalized desires, a belief that there must be a purpose and way to improve on this existence.. does it sort of sound like escapism, creating a deity that can offer us an escape from the "pain and suffering" of now and the uncertainty of an existence beyond death..

Supreme powers, cosmic puppeteers, universal scoring systems, "noble truths & right paths", etc... and no verifiable evidence to support these "beliefs"... yet, each one draws on its interpretation of natural consequences to establish rules and rituals..

Nature.. observable, systematic AND random, determinable consequences, etc.. I sense that, as cultures, mankind has assigned personalities and rituals to simple natural order that satisfies inherent desires and cultural development..

We are here for a time, the Season of Man, then we are not.. the energy that animates this human existed before and will exist after our physical experience.. during the physical experience we will refine or corrupt this energy.. and, beyond the physical existence i sense that the energy will have other experiences according to the degree of refinement or corruption of its physical manifestation regardless of whichever cultural ritual the physical human favored...

The human existence has controls to alert us of our "core" status.. compassion and conscience.. and free-will to govern our destiny..

Just the perspective of an aspiring human.. Be well..

Greetings..

Yikes!! i got off on a tangent on that last post..

No, there is not more than "ME".. but, it is our perception of "ME" that is flawed.. we tend to view ourselves as somehow separate from each other, in fact, we often see ourselves as separate from life itself.. we are One thing behaving many ways.. a lonely singularity questing self-realization through its myriad of forms (life).. perhaps the "big bang" was the singularity exploding into the void, issuing the prime directive, "Go ye therefore into the void, experiencing yourselves, evolving into ME, that i might "Know" what I AM.. as though we, as life, are the sensory input mechanisms of the Supreme..

Or, not... Be well..

Very perceptive TzuJanLi, what a great post well put.

[Honza]

So, if God is I AM then he is saying I EXIST, I AM REAL.

The problem I have with that argument is why does not God say other things exist or are real. Things which are equally God.
Such as LOVE EXISTs, LOVE is REAL or YOU EXIST, YOU are REAL etc.

It always seems to boil down to God saying HE is or I AM but not affirming any other truth/being/reality.

I know that God is the ONLY, but there are INFINITE ways of saying that other than I AM.

In Latin the I is said as EGO. EGO is the obstacle to God, so why would God affirm I or EGO so much as opposed to affirming LOVE or GOD so much.

God can affirm his reality by saying or being other words than just I AM.
God can affirm his reality by saying or being LOVE, GOD, PEACE etc. etc.

I AM is one definition of God out of the infinity, the TRUE definition of God is ALL definitions; is the infinity.

God is everything but not evrything is aware of this fact.

I don't think that the EGO is the obstacle to God. It is something that comes from your mind, so there must be something there that can help us become one.
I think if we see our ego as divine and don't suppress it, but bless it, we will become much better personalities/people.

Honza; God strays away from talking about himself as other objects as the word GOD is something that we cannot grasp because we are trying to look for God in a particular something, whereas in fact God is all around us. And also inside of us.

TzuJanLi; I think that if we could see ourselves as the divine beings we are we will no longer play with the thought of being imperfect. For once you see the divine within yourself and then on the outside, you will feel the bliss of life.

Monkey; thank you, you lead my being back onto the path, and you basically said it all for me :)

Enlightener

Enlightener, be careful, you might inflate my 'ego'. ;- )

Honza, what we know of God comes from self exploration and from old texts. In these old texts, God does not talk about Him/Herself. What usually happens is that someone needs to know who it is they are dealing with. They want to know when they go back to the village, town, king, etc, that they go there with the authority of God. In such occasions, where God is asked, the reply is, tell them I AM. That is, Moses, etc, you have the authority of God.

The term I means more than just ego. There are a number of meanings to it. There is the ego or I that Freud talked about which is the part of us that integrates and moderates our overly critical self and the instinctual self. It is the rational part of the person called Ego. There are variations of course depending on which psychological school of thought you belong to and on what level of human experience you are referring to.

Then there is the concept of I which refers to a higher self. When the term I is used in sacred text in relation to God, it usually is refering to this type of I.

As a Greek myself, I can tell you that the word ego means different things in different contexts. When it is translated from Latin to English, I may translate as Ego, but the nuance, meaning changes depending on what you are talking about. The word Eros is the same. It can be used to discuss physical, animalistic sexual pleasures, or romance or it can mean Love of a sacred kind. It is possible to have multiple meanings of the same word and in translating it, it is important to be careful to translate not just the word but the meaning as well.

When in sacred texts God uses the term I AM, it is not to say I am real or I exist. Those are part of it but not the whole of it. I AM refers to the idea of omnipresence and omnipotence. I AM refers to the immediate presence of God. God, is here, now, powerful and present and instructs such and such to do God's will. The reason why God doesn't refer to people being real, etc, is simply because that is a given. The people who wrote the sacred texts knew they existed but want evidence that God existed or were refering to God.

I also suggest that you keep in mind that the Bible and other sacred texts were inspired by God, not written by God. These sacred texts are best considered as the human experience of God, the messages they got, things they experienced, etc. They are about our experience of God, not God's experience of us.

One last point. God goes by many definitions, ie, God is Love, God is Justice, etc. However, that is a human value placed on God, there are many such value labels placed on God, they are not wrong, just not complete. When we look at our experience of God, what is at the essence of that experience, it is I AM. God Is. God is present to us, present in the here and now, all encompassing. And on this level, if we choose, we can also become I AMs, that is, if we can be present in every moment, not governed by emotions, the past, the future, greed, selfishness, etc, just present to God, to the moment, we enter into the God state. They say that infinity and immortality lies in the moment, we don't have the past, we don't have the future but the present, if we are fully within it, we are immortal. Do we become God? When were we not? But then, it depends on what one defines as God and as soon as you do that, you have defined yourself, your limitations...so stay in the I AM, stay present. This is what made Jesus God, and his reason for coming here, to reconnect us to this. While some talked of God in the distant sky, Jesus talked about his Father, that is, a personal, immediate, familiar experience of God, to the point that the ordinary man became God.