Why was the dinasorus here first before Adam and Eve

[TerraStorm]

Hi organicborn :)

No thats okay, I understand, and you did a fine job with diplomacy there :)

I understand where your coming from, my parents were members of the mormon church before they were ex-communicated for having different views, so I really do understand the need to respond to certain issues.

So heck, why don't I just throw in something extra, just for a bit of informative fun, and we'll throw a spanner into the works of this conditioning.

The earlier events in the book of genesis was derived from mesopotamian (babylonian) texts. The ancient or paleo-hebrew written script wasnt developed until approximately 1000BC as a derivative of the phonecian script, so any recorded histories in the bible that predated that period was recorded in languages that corresponded to any given event before that. For example Abraham in genesis was from the city of Ur in mesopotamia, the contemporary written script of that period was babylonian cuneiform, so any events preceeding Abraham were recorded in cuneiform, not hebrew as the biblical community likely assumes.
The creation events recorded during the time preceeding abraham in cuneiform are of course the seven tablets of creation

This is of the first tablet As follows:

When in the height heaven was not named,
And the earth beneath did not yet bear a name,
And the primeval Apsu (water) who begat them,
And chaos, Tiamut (sea), the mother of them both
Their waters were mingled together,
And no field was formed, no marsh was to be seen;
When of the gods none had been called into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies were ordained;
Then were created the gods in the midst of heaven,
Lahmu (stars) and Lahamu (zodiac) were called into being...
Ages increased,...
Then Ansar (heavens) and Kisar (Earth) were created, and over them....
Long were the days, then there came forth.....
Anu (dome or firmament that covered the earth) their son,...

etc etc..

Then there are the events of Noah, also derived from the babylonian texts. The origins of his story are in the "Epic of Gilgamesh" however the name of Noah in this epic was Utnapishtim

Utnapishtim was advised by Enki (one of the mesopotamian Gods) to build a ship, and bring his wife, family, relatives, builders and craftsmen, animals etc warning him of a flood that would wipe out the city and the rest of the world because of their sins. He told him no other animals and humans would survive. Then after the flood ( in the epic it was 7 days not 40 days as in genesis) he sent out a dove to see if the waters receeded, then when nothing was found he sent out a swallow, then when nothing came of that he sent out a raven that apparently found land so Utnapishtim set the animals free and made a sacrifice to the gods etc

Interestingly enough this collection of creation stories and flood stories were retained in Genesis, with just a few obvious changes of course. Abraham being tasked by God to rid himself and his follows of the polytheistic structures of Mesopotamia would have had to change any mention of a polytheistic God or Goddess, in any creation or flood story he retained for the repository of the book of genesis. But what is very interesting is that he DID retain these stories to pass on to the future generations of his followers.

Then there are origins of the story of Adam and Eve in mesopotamia. The word Eden in mesopotamia translated into "abode or home of the Gods" and that particular creation story is interesting. The story follows as Enki and Ninti (a god and goddess of mesopotamia) who created/birthed the first man born of God/Human and Neanderthal/Earthborn by mixing the blood of Enki with the blood of a neanderthal. Now somehow the wording story got mixed up with man being born of the earth to man being formed of clay as it was told in later interpretations. Probably due to a translation issue. It was said that Enki was making a slave race to work in Eden. Apparently this slave race was mainly neanderthal, allowing them to be intelligent enough to carry out their duties, but pliable enough to want to work. He found that the pure native Neanderthal were, well to dumb to make good workers, so he tweaked their genetics a bit to make what he thought were better workers.
Then he birthed Humans from himself, however this human retained his Godly genetic heritage and his name was Adapa. He was one of the seven (or ten depending on where in mesopotamia the story was told) sages or kings who was created to bring civillisation, he was the first. He was given dominion over the circular city (havilah) in Eden. Appearently he was told not to eat the forbidden food of immortality etc..

So its interesting how that story was retained then changed a bit later on.

And that most of the people being conditioned to these views may not be aware that they are polytheistic in origin.

Not to mistake me, I'm not trying to debunk the whole Idea of God in the bible, well because I actually DO believe in God, quite strongly actually, just not in a christian sense.
But isnt it fascinating that alot of the main stories in genesis derived from stories of Gods not God, yet are still in Genesis.

Originally Posted by organic born

Hi TerraStorm :)

A BA in archaeology? I'm clearly preaching to the choir on this subject! :)

I was trying to be careful not to nip at you personally, you are an intelligent and insightful writer! But I do enjoy a drive-by shot at the bible from time to time when the situation arises. Doing so is still a cathartic experience for me. I was raised immersed in religious imagery and I'm still celebrating the fact that the core of such has passed. There are still shadows left in my head from such conditioning (otherwise why would I feel the need to address such issues) so I tend to use these kinds of responses to help locate where some of the old scar tissue from such exposures are still hidden.

I went back and read the original posters question on this subject and frankly I'm not really sure of what they're talking about. What kind of history are they learning that dinosaurs and humans wold be considered anywhere near each other? Having gone extinct 65 million years before homo sapiens came on stage is a pretty long gap to get confused over. And then mixing that with an Adam and Eve scenario is perhaps conditioning at it's finest. Other than setting the record straight I'm not really sure there's a viable reply to this tread. :)

[organic born]

Originally Posted by TerraStorm

So its interesting how that story was retained then changed a bit later on.

And that most of the people being conditioned to these views may not be aware that they are polytheistic in origin.

Not to mistake me, I'm not trying to debunk the whole Idea of God in the bible, well because I actually DO believe in God, quite strongly actually, just not in a christian sense.
But isnt it fascinating that alot of the main stories in genesis derived from stories of Gods not God, yet are still in Genesis.

Amazing response TerraStorm! Perfectly detailed!

I've spent a number of years drifting in and out of this subject and concluded sometime ago that this whole thing is a fantasy of epic proportions. Many of us were conditioned to this fantasy and carry with us a mental structure that tends to narrow our focus accordingly.

So what happens when we make progress toward effectively dissolving these attachments, and are left with a big question as to "what is?", as an attempt to fill the gap? It would seem that the "New Age" was a response to this conundrum, and attempted to replace one style of conditioning with another. A lot of folks seem to embrace science for essentially the same reason. Words like "jesus", "god" and "heaven/hell" have settled-in as mental "solids", and tend to be go-to's when our mind wanders aimlessly over what happens when we die.

Remove such conditioning and what are we left with? Do we have the nerve to proceed without such imaginative expectations? Is it necessary to replace one style of conditioning with another that's comparably thick with speculation as well? Or can we proceed openly as curious participants in a world of complex living, and allow life to freely express itself, with our involvement being as curious observers?

[TerraStorm]

Very well said and a very good question

What does happen when we make progress towards dissolving these attachments? What is left?

What is left when we have no one else telling us what to do, no one else to tell us what is there, no one else to tell us how to think about a thing? No one else's experiences to depend upon? What are we left with then?

Because unfortunately that is what religious conditioning does, or even new age conditioning when it is present, It allows us to become lazy participants in the universal scheme, relying on someone else's experiences of all things spiritual, someone from 100 years ago, 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago. Relying on someone elses's truths according to their spiritual experience. Anybody's truth, anybody's experience but our own. Religious conditioning allows us to take no responsibility of our own for establishing a relationship with God, the universe or the spiritual world, because in this system, we have someone else that has already done it all for us, someone else who has experienced God or the spiritual world and told their truth according to their experience, so under this model of living "we've read that truth and done our part towards what is deemed holy according to what someone else said" We've obeyed Gods laws as someone else has written them to the best of our ability when we could, So we must know God. No body has to discover anything, because its already been discovered according to their model, no one has to evolve. Which is strange, when even figures like Jesus himself had performed extraordinary feats of power and told the people "these things and more you will also do," They still don't bother to learn, they still don't bother to grow, even when the man they follow basically tells them that this is the kind of stuff you will be doing, no one makes any effort to do it, they just keep reading the same thing, doing the same thing, never really moving forward, never questioning what someone else is telling them.
Any kind of system that tells you what to think according to what someone else says is going to have the same affect.

So without these systems what do we have?

We have the freedom from the limitations and constraints that we have allowed to model our lives. We have the potential for growth, the potential to discover experiences for ourselves rather than someone else's, we have the potential to evolve, the ability to question and question again without being suppressed by these systems, we have the ability to form our own relationship with life and the spiritual world. To discover our own truths for ourselves.

It becomes a process of discernment, so where do we look to for guidance if we need it?

We look to the source that leads us to experience something for ourselves, or helps us in this direction, the source that guides us to our own self discovery, to the source that helps us develop our own thoughts, so that we can really understand something for ourselves. To the source that guides us towards independence, and helps us to find our own truths rather than follow theirs.

Originally Posted by organic born

Amazing response TerraStorm! Perfectly detailed!

I've spent a number of years drifting in and out of this subject and concluded sometime ago that this whole thing is a fantasy of epic proportions. Many of us were conditioned to this fantasy and carry with us a mental structure that tends to narrow our focus accordingly.

So what happens when we make progress toward effectively dissolving these attachments, and are left with a big question as to "what is?", as an attempt to fill the gap? It would seem that the "New Age" was a response to this conundrum, and attempted to replace one style of conditioning with another. A lot of folks seem to embrace science for essentially the same reason. Words like "jesus", "god" and "heaven/hell" have settled-in as mental "solids", and tend to be go-to's when our mind wanders aimlessly over what happens when we die.

Remove such conditioning and what are we left with? Do we have the nerve to proceed without such imaginative expectations? Is it necessary to replace one style of conditioning with another that's comparably thick with speculation as well? Or can we proceed openly as curious participants in a world of complex living, and allow life to freely express itself, with our involvement being as curious observers?

[organic born]

Originally Posted by TerraStorm

So without these systems what do we have?

We have the freedom from the limitations and constraints that we have allowed to model our lives. We have the potential for growth, the potential to discover experiences for ourselves rather than someone else's, we have the potential to evolve, the ability to question and question again without being suppressed by these systems, we have the ability to form our own relationship with life and the spiritual world. To discover our own truths for ourselves.

It becomes a process of discernment, so where do we look to for guidance if we need it?

We look to the source that leads us to experience something for ourselves, or helps us in this direction, the source that guides us to our own self discovery, to the source that helps us develop our own thoughts, so that we can really understand something for ourselves. To the source that guides us towards independence, and helps us to find our own truths rather than follow theirs.

Doesn't it feel great to just say all this!! To reclaim our own impetuous for ourselves, and to venture forth freely in relation to what inwardly draws us! To stop playing the puppet for a bunch of others expectations and to strike-out on a path of discovery that intriguingly unfolds before us with we each revelatory step that we take!

The only thing that I ask as I proceed with this journey is "please show me". I don't hazard a guess as to who's doing the showing, I don't do so with the intention of building a new system of believing, I don't try and tell life "what it is" or "what it should be" I simply move steadily into the realm of uncertainty with little to no expectation as to what the outcome should be.

I "believe" in nothing, and because so I'm exposed to "everything".

I get things in dreams, I'm lead to great books that tend to uncover the idiosyncrasies of what it is to be human, I'll bump into to folks at the grocery store who happen to point me into directions of inquiry via casual conversations, I rarely have a clue as to where any new impetuous will emerge from, but recognize the zing of an inwardly prodding direction as it makes itself known.

There are answers to be found but they're not found through "expectation". They make themselves know "proportionately" based on our current ability to perceive. We may revisit old issues on a rotating basis with each drive-by as an update to help better incorporate our expanding capacity to perceive.

It takes guts, at first, to be free, but as the clarity of what unfolds before us takes root, then the fear is replaced by a leaning-into want-to-know.

Your reply is a form of codifying such a journey. Your reply is a declaration of such freedom! :)

[TerraStorm]

This is such a brilliant response Organicborn,

The way you view life after being immersed in such a system is amazing. I wonder, have you ever been lead to a set of books called "Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsh"?

It is an amazing series, its not religious of course, in fact most religions would like to censure this series from members of their communities.

If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend reading them, I think you would find it fascinating. If you ever wanted something to "show you", try reading book 1

http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-.../dp/0399142789

It was an amazing gift to me during my earliest spiritual awakening. I believed in nothing and followed concepts haphazardly, until I met someone who lead me to this book. Understanding drastically changed after reading it, I know it sounds strange, but this series brought me to a whole new level of understanding about spirituality. And funnily enough a lot of what you have questioned and discussed are contained in this series.

There are a lot of sources of guidance that I could recommend from my end, but this source seems to be the most beneficial in such a journey. Promoting the most spiritual growth and understanding

Its definitely in my category of life changing reads :)

Originally Posted by organic born

The only thing that I ask as I proceed with this journey is "please show me". I don't hazard a guess as to who's doing the showing, I don't do so with the intention of building a new system of believing, I don't try and tell life "what it is" or "what it should be" I simply move steadily into the realm of uncertainty with little to no expectation as to what the outcome should be.

I "believe" in nothing, and because so I'm exposed to "everything".

I get things in dreams, I'm lead to great books that tend to uncover the idiosyncrasies of what it is to be human, I'll bump into to folks at the grocery store who happen to point me into directions of inquiry via casual conversations, I rarely have a clue as to where any new impetuous will emerge from, but recognize the zing of an inwardly prodding direction as it makes itself known.

There are answers to be found but they're not found through "expectation". They make themselves know "proportionately" based on our current ability to perceive. We may revisit old issues on a rotating basis with each drive-by as an update to help better incorporate our expanding capacity to perceive.

It takes guts, at first, to be free, but as the clarity of what unfolds before us takes root, then the fear is replaced by a leaning-into want-to-know.

Your reply is a form of codifying such a journey. Your reply is a declaration of such freedom! :)

[organic born]

Originally Posted by TerraStorm

This is such a brilliant response Organicborn,

The way you view life after being immersed in such a system is amazing. I wonder, have you ever been lead to a set of books called "Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsh"?

Thank you TerraStorm, and yes, I have just been lead to that series with your reply. :)

I've been reading channeled material since Jane Roberts started channeling Seth. I would buy her books in hard cover the moment they were published. It seems that since then a lot of folks have entered this arena. Some pretty interesting, some really really iffy.

I started reading "Conversations with God" and at first felt it was heading down the road of traditional biblical imagery. If the channel was "God" then the biblical theme seemed soon to follow. I was pleased to run across the following early in the book:

"But my truth about God comes from You.
Who said so?
Others.
What others?
Leaders. Ministers. Rabbis. Priests. Books. The Bible, for heaven’s sake!
Those are not authoritative sources.
They aren’t?
No."

Wheww...

I'm currently on page 26 and find it a pleasure to read! Thank You! :)

Another good channeled book along these lines is: "The Sphere and the Hologram: Explanations from the Other Side" by Frank DeMarco. It's an attempt on the part of the channeled entity to explain (as best as possible) what's happening on the "other side". A fascinating read.

Another fascinating channeled book is entitled "Life in the World Unseen" by Anthony Borgia. I ran across it free on the internet years ago and it's still there, and it's still free. :)
http://www.thegreatquestion.com/book...RLD_UNSEEN.pdf

[TerraStorm]

Yes the book does seem to head in that traditional direction, and then it takes a surprising turn. I'm glad your enjoying it though, it has such fascinating substance.

I will definitely check out those books, I haven't read them yet, I'd love to hear of the perspective of others on these subjects!

Neale Donald Walsh also wrote a book on the other side, timelines etc that I read after book 3 of his conversations series, it was called "Home with God"

I'll be downloading the PDF while its free ;) thank you for the recommendations.

Gosh I need to expand my database, I cant believe I haven't read these yet!

Originally Posted by organic born

Thank you TerraStorm, and yes, I have just been lead to that series with your reply. :)

I've been reading channeled material since Jane Roberts started channeling Seth. I would buy her books in hard cover the moment they were published. It seems that since then a lot of folks have entered this arena. Some pretty interesting, some really really iffy.

I started reading "Conversations with God" and at first felt it was heading down the road of traditional biblical imagery. If the channel was "God" then the biblical theme seemed soon to follow. I was pleased to run across the following early in the book:

"But my truth about God comes from You.
Who said so?
Others.
What others?
Leaders. Ministers. Rabbis. Priests. Books. The Bible, for heaven’s sake!
Those are not authoritative sources.
They aren’t?
No."

Wheww...

I'm currently on page 26 and find it a pleasure to read! Thank You! :)

Another good channeled book along these lines is: "The Sphere and the Hologram: Explanations from the Other Side" by Frank DeMarco. It's an attempt on the part of the channeled entity to explain (as best as possible) what's happening on the "other side". A fascinating read.

Another fascinating channeled book is entitled "Life in the World Unseen" by Anthony Borgia. I ran across it free on the internet years ago and it's still there, and it's still free. :)
http://www.thegreatquestion.com/book...RLD_UNSEEN.pdf

[organic born]

Originally Posted by TerraStorm

Yes the book does seem to head in that traditional direction, and then it takes a surprising turn. I'm glad your enjoying it though, it has such fascinating substance.

I will definitely check out those books, I haven't read them yet, I'd love to hear of the perspective of others on these subjects!

So get this, the other night when I was typing about these other two books I had a Johnny Carson rerun playing on the tube in the back ground. I had just typed the title of Franks book when Johnny called from the audience a woman named "Mary DeMarco", I was typing the word "DeMarco" at the very moment he was saying "DeMarco". What are the odds of that happening! :)

I'm still enjoying Neale's book in the limited time I have for reading (my waking life is a busy one) Thanks again! And I'll be happy to look into his most recent addition! :)

[TerraStorm]

OMG! Can you believe that things started happening like that to me too! but it wasnt until after i read Neales books! Weird coincidences started happening, I'd be thinking of something and somebody on tv would say something about exactly what i was thinking, id be singing a song and then turn on the radio and the exact lyrics i was singing to the exact song would be on at the same time, or id be pondering or speculatong about something and some random person may suddenly say something that answers whatever i was pondering, or even something on tv or the radio might answer. I mean you always get the odd coincidence here and there in life, but i wasnt getting such an increase until afte i started reading those books.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by TerraStorm

OMG! Can you believe that things started happening like that to me too! but it wasnt until after i read Neales books! Weird coincidences started happening, I'd be thinking of something and somebody on tv would say something about exactly what i was thinking, id be singing a song and then turn on the radio and the exact lyrics i was singing to the exact song would be on at the same time, or id be pondering or speculatong about something and some random person may suddenly say something that answers whatever i was pondering, or even something on tv or the radio might answer. I mean you always get the odd coincidence here and there in life, but i wasnt getting such an increase until afte i started reading those books.

This is the sort of thing that I would expect in a lucid dream, not something that our 'physical' world would produce! I'm a big fan of synchronicity and yet there are times when such things seem to outdo themselves! I really, really, like when this happens! :)

Shifting the subject only slightly, (because I think that synchronicity may be a by-product of the following) there was this one quote from "Conversations with God" that caught my attention because of a shift that I was watching happening within me as I was appreciating the implications behind what's being said.

First the quote:

"Okay, You’ve lost me. Let’s go back to this school bit. I’ve heard teacher after teacher tell us that life is a school. I’m frankly shocked to hear You deny that.
School is a place you go if there is something you do not know that you want to know. It is not a place you go if you already know a thing and simply want to experience your knowingness.
Life (as you call it) is an opportunity for you to know experientially what you already know conceptually. You need learn nothing to do this. You need merely remember what you already know, and act on it. "

Now watch what happens when the implications of this is ingested into our essential state-of-being. If we are looking to "learn" our way forward, as a primary means of spiritually investigating, then there's a feeling of ~separation~ that accompanies such an approach. I am "here", the information is "out there" now I must go "out there" to find it. Stylistically this puts us at odds with the world that surrounds us. There's an overcast of tension that accompanies such an approach.

But if instead we embrace the relaxed state of "accepting that we already know what we're needing to know, we need only remember what we're inwardly already aware of", then the tension gently falls away and the feeling of "challenge" becomes considerably less daunting.. And the way in which we experience living is different. We feel compressed when we feel we need to learn our way out of the bag, but there's a feeling of connection to all things seen and unseen if our task is simply to "remember".

The reason this strikes me with such clarity is that I've seen such a thing over and over again.. whenever I've been lucid dreaming, when I've been out of body, and during a couple of other really intense experiences where the clouds seemed to open and a fuller awareness of my inherent-greater-knowing becomes comfortably apparent as a crispness of being. It's long been evident to me that we need only to awaken, that the clouds that obscure our most comprehensive vision is a highly personalized process of our own making. This "state of remembering" is not a goal that we shoot for, but instead it's a manor of 'engaging our lives' and simply watching as greater clarity unfolds before us. It's the epitome of our ability to "trust". :)