Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-06-2019, 11:07 PM
redsox87 redsox87 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 3
 
Nonduality and Nonexistence

Hi everyone! New to the forums. Feeling a little confused and lost at the moment so hopefully you can provide some clarity and/or guidance. Here’s my conundrum:

All in all, there is only nonduality “one hand clapping “. THIS. This is apparent because I’m sitting here typing on my phone, I can enjoy a beer, a bird is flying outside, cars are driving on the highway etc (I.E “experiences are happening “ even though they are unreal as separate experiences).

I get confused and lost often because the idea comes up- what if individual consciousness never arose, what if there was just infinite blackness without experience forever from the very beginning? How could nonduality be “known “ if those words could never be uttered? If there was no experience and no consciousness how could even nonduality be the base truth? How can we say this isn’t absolute non existence? Hoping you have some guidance because this point always trips me up and makes me feel lost and upset. It makes me feel like nonduality could have had some alternative- this causes my mind not to be at rest.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-06-2019, 01:10 AM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
Suspended
Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 74
  TerramineLightvoid's Avatar
First off. The universe is not truly nondual. It is ripe and full with dualities and there IS an objective Morality. The reason for Asymmetry, Greyness, etc. Is because the most core duality fueling our world, is a 1 sided dynamic by design.

Think about it like Strength. The opposite of Strength is Weakness, correct? Well if someone is as weak as another is strong. What does that translate to? A 1 sided power dynamic. Despite the fact that Weakness is a thing which exists and IS equal in extent in this example to as much Strength, by the very nature of Strength VS Weakness... all it means is that the stronger person will 1 sided romp stomp the other in a power clash.

Apply the same thing to Existence and Nonexistence. Nonexistence couldn't even exist in the first place, if Existence didn't exist.

This whole ordeal of which came first, Form VS Void. Is something that has been debated since the dawn of man and most typical is it for people to think Void comes before Form. They cannot conceive of Void being created, so it must be Form that was "created" by the Void. This is backwards. Void is 1 Form of Reality. As paradoxical as it is, Void could not exist without a Form to contain it. To define where that Void is located. So in reality Light is predominant over Void. Existence is Eternal, this is what the bible is trying to tell you.

Reality was always here. It was there in the beginning even when it took on the form of an empty darkness and appeared completely invisible. Scientists call it the Quantum Electrodynamic Field. There is no configuration state of possible universes where the QED doesn't exist, in the most empty and "nothing" universe there is... you get a very small spacial horizon with a black hole inside it. No matter how small it's still a Reality which exists. The QED simply has states of "Rest" where it's configuration state LOOKS in appearance like it's all 0. But it's still there, physically speaking. Reality simulates nonexistence, not the other way around.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-06-2019, 01:15 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
How do you know there is non-duality?
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-06-2019, 01:21 AM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
Suspended
Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 74
  TerramineLightvoid's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
How do you know there is non-duality?
It's a scientific fact. Scientists themselves say that the universe would make no sense at all if there were NO duality at all. But that the universe as we know it could only have existed by BREAKING the symmetry of a duality.

This is exemplified in the Big Bang. Where you had a duality of Matter and Anti-Matter, and if reality were truly fundamentally Dual. Then Matter and Anti-Matter would have completely collapsed each other. The big bang would have canceled itself out and the universe would have ceased to exist.

For whatever reason, there was actually more Matter than Antimatter generated. The leftover Matter is the resulting universe of which we reside. So it is by a breaking of the symmetry of Matter, that we even exist at all.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-06-2019, 02:08 AM
redsox87 redsox87 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 3
 
Why can we say Nonexistence can’t even be without existence? I understand Nonexistence is the absence of existence. What I mean is if there’s no consciousness and no observer how can existence or Nonexistence even come into the fold?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-06-2019, 02:23 AM
TerramineLightvoid TerramineLightvoid is offline
Suspended
Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 74
  TerramineLightvoid's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox87
Why can we say Nonexistence can’t even be without existence? I understand Nonexistence is the absence of existence. What I mean is if there’s no consciousness and no observer how can existence or Nonexistence even come into the fold?
Well based on what we know in Quantum Physics.

Notice the discrepency in the Laws of Physics where at the Quantum Scale things are influenced by conscious observation... but Macro scale is not at all influenced by our observation?

This IMPLIES a larger observer. It means the Quantum Scale is simply too small for even God to see past. But that's irrelevant as we look to what this means about God. God's level of comprehension observes the entire universe, down to every little detail.

So there's some evidence here to suggest the possibility that reality is ALWAYS observed by a "cosmic consciousness". Even someone like Michio Kaku admits this is a startling very possible truth about our reality. That consciousness is a core force of the universe.

But going to the extreme of what I have been saying. At the same time. It's just a fundamental logic. Think about it. How could Nonexistence... be? Think about it in terms of a binary like computer code. 0 is "None" and 1 is "Something". If what you start with is 0, all you have is 0. You can't create something from nothing, so you will only ever have 0 if 0 was true unto itself. But if you first have 1... in other words you first define that there "is existence". THEN you can create 0 in grey nuances and in selective nonexistence... in other words what our reality looks like. Where some possibilities exist, while others do not. Even the physics supports this at the quantum level because you see "virtual particles" which are like a /grey/ form or state of Existence where these particles both DO AND DONT EXIST AT THE SAME TIME. They are in a paradoxical nonexistant existant state. Like as if something Imaginary, were technically Real. It's in that spectrum betweel real and potential. It's unfathomable and having scientists **** bricks. But it's there.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:58 PM
WildHairedWoman WildHairedWoman is offline
Guide
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 657
  WildHairedWoman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox87
Why can we say Nonexistence can’t even be without existence? I understand Nonexistence is the absence of existence. What I mean is if there’s no consciousness and no observer how can existence or Nonexistence even come into the fold?

I think you need to get out and interact with people, stop worrying about things that are not meant to be understood. Delight in the mystery and live your life. All this stuff about duality and non-duality is a distraction and keeps you from living your life. It has nothing to do with spirituality or the experience of being human on planet earth. There is nothing wrong with contemplation on these things but you admitted that it keeps you confused and off kilter. So walk away for a while, let it float around without your attention and see if something comes up that gives you an "Ah Ha! "moment about it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-07-2019, 06:03 PM
WildHairedWoman WildHairedWoman is offline
Guide
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 657
  WildHairedWoman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid
Well based on what we know in Quantum Physics.

Notice the discrepency in the Laws of Physics where at the Quantum Scale things are influenced by conscious observation... but Macro scale is not at all influenced by our observation?

This IMPLIES a larger observer. It means the Quantum Scale is simply too small for even God to see past. But that's irrelevant as we look to what this means about God. God's level of comprehension observes the entire universe, down to every little detail.

So there's some evidence here to suggest the possibility that reality is ALWAYS observed by a "cosmic consciousness". Even someone like Michio Kaku admits this is a startling very possible truth about our reality. That consciousness is a core force of the universe.

But going to the extreme of what I have been saying. At the same time. It's just a fundamental logic. Think about it. How could Nonexistence... be? Think about it in terms of a binary like computer code. 0 is "None" and 1 is "Something". If what you start with is 0, all you have is 0. You can't create something from nothing, so you will only ever have 0 if 0 was true unto itself. But if you first have 1... in other words you first define that there "is existence". THEN you can create 0 in grey nuances and in selective nonexistence... in other words what our reality looks like. Where some possibilities exist, while others do not. Even the physics supports this at the quantum level because you see "virtual particles" which are like a /grey/ form or state of Existence where these particles both DO AND DONT EXIST AT THE SAME TIME. They are in a paradoxical nonexistant existant state. Like as if something Imaginary, were technically Real. It's in that spectrum betweel real and potential. It's unfathomable and having scientists **** bricks. But it's there.

I find what you say here very strange and convoluted. What books have you been reading that you are trying to understand? Or maybe you could rephrase some of what you are trying to say to make it more understandable and forget about Quantum Physics as your example, I think that is what is making this confusing.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:01 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox87
I get confused and lost often because the idea comes up- what if individual consciousness never arose, what if there was just infinite blackness without experience forever from the very beginning? How could nonduality be “known “ if those words could never be uttered? If there was no experience and no consciousness how could even nonduality be the base truth? How can we say this isn’t absolute non existence? Hoping you have some guidance because this point always trips me up and makes me feel lost and upset. It makes me feel like nonduality could have had some alternative- this causes my mind not to be at rest.

Why not just rest in the reality of the present moment? All these "what ifs" are just thoughts arising in the mind. Let go of these thoughts of what might be and simply be present with what is.

And if you cannot let go of these thoughts then just allow them to be present as your reality in this moment. Do not resist them and they will dissolve back into the nothingness whence they came.

There is no confusion in the present moment. There is simply what is.

Peace.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-07-2019, 02:35 AM
WhiteGull WhiteGull is offline
Seeker
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox87
Hi everyone! New to the forums. Feeling a little confused and lost at the moment so hopefully you can provide some clarity and/or guidance. Here’s my conundrum:

All in all, there is only nonduality “one hand clapping “. THIS. This is apparent because I’m sitting here typing on my phone, I can enjoy a beer, a bird is flying outside, cars are driving on the highway etc (I.E “experiences are happening “ even though they are unreal as separate experiences).

I get confused and lost often because the idea comes up- what if individual consciousness never arose, what if there was just infinite blackness without experience forever from the very beginning? How could nonduality be “known “ if those words could never be uttered? If there was no experience and no consciousness how could even nonduality be the base truth? How can we say this isn’t absolute non existence? Hoping you have some guidance because this point always trips me up and makes me feel lost and upset. It makes me feel like nonduality could have had some alternative- this causes my mind not to be at rest.


You're asking questions and that is what counts. High Five! Some people will answer you with explanations that work for you and others won't. And some folks will just belch blithering sentences. Take what works and leave the rest. And be patient. Others will find and reply to your thread. I enjoyed reading it.
:)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums