Is there a society for enlightened people?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

But still and all, spirituality is ever the general process of revelation and realization of true self-Identity,
especially when consciously and deliberately undertaken by human beings - which may include religion.
It's not an artifact or subset of religion per se, since spirituality precedes and supersedes religion, but religion can, does and has served as a conduit for an emergent spirituality during a phase of human evolution when that becomes conscious, personal and more self-directed.

In the future religion as we know it will not even exist...but spirituality will certainly persist.

Very nicely clarified, Jyotir. Agreed, full stop. Spirituality in this deeper usage is understood as that aspect of our interbeing (union) which is intrinsic to our union (alignment) within ourselves and with all that is...and which is increasing made manifest as we walk our paths ever more consciously.

Peace & blessings
7L

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

.... Spirituality is God realizing Self, eventually in and through the human life.

I have heard this theory, God experiences through humans. We say we can't understand God and we're saying it does not understanding itself? Emotions as well. Hate anger, etc. It doesn't know why! Based on this kind of proxy experiencing God is guilty of many things? God set all pain and misery but not confusion in motion? What about the rights of us humans. It is illogical in that some suffer and some do not. How does God pick and choose and is that right? The flaw here is there are some experiencing we have no inkling of and never experience. What about the inequality of experiencing some have where others don't. Also God should have learned a long time ago but it is true we are new here.

I must not be reading this right?

Definitely not resonating with me. Wow, this would really really be sad which God is feeling right now. Wondering if God can communicate with humans and would like to hear from it.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The question for me is not whether I am enlightened or not but what I am enlightened to. I know how my brains is wired (like spaghetti lol) and how that affects my Spirituality, and it's the same for everyone so if I am that self aware? That's something I never see conversations on in the forum - How does my thought processes affect my Spirituality? You're right, it is a mish-mash of theories but isn't that what Spirituality is? It even uses science for its own, notably vibrations and does it very badly too. But all those theories have a bearing on the way I think, and if this contradicts that and something else makes a nonsense of it all what kind of Spirituality is that? If it only works when put in a glass case and protected it's not much use to me.

All of those theories are related and affect each other.

I don't worry too much about paradoxes, if those opposites exist then who am I to say otherwise, that they shouldn't? Telling myself I'm enlightened doesn't do much for me but asking myself what I'm enlightened to and the reasons I'm using that word tells me more than plenty. And it's always in the back of my mind; I'm not enlightened as to what I'm not enlightened to and that's the modesty-maker.

I only respond for others and have no issue with your world view which I respect as right for you, and appropriate in that regard

Spirituality, to me, is not vulnerable, not contradictory, not unable to stand up to scrutiny. However, it can be hard to explain in words...or maybe I have an issue with it as others are able to elucidate far better than I.

I just mention it as I wanted you and others to know that in my worldly experience, spirituality more than "makes sense" - it is beyond "understanding" - it is fully experientially of, and through, this human being.

I guess I am trying to say, ever so clumsily, that there is a Truth there that conjoins all true (genuine) spiritual words. People come back and say/use different words, but it's all inclusive of the "moon".

Also, I respect you, Greenslade. I want to add only that my own belief is that any genuinely enlightened person is naturally modest/humble/of humility - without so, their enlightenment is not even true.

Well wishes

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

I only respond for others and have no issue with your world view which I respect as right for you, and appropriate in that regard

Spirituality, to me, is not vulnerable, not contradictory, not unable to stand up to scrutiny. However, it can be hard to explain in words...or maybe I have an issue with it as others are able to elucidate far better than I.

I just mention it as I wanted you and others to know that in my worldly experience, spirituality more than "makes sense" - it is beyond "understanding" - it is fully experientially of, and through, this human being.

I guess I am trying to say, ever so clumsily, that there is a Truth there that conjoins all true (genuine) spiritual words. People come back and say/use different words, but it's all inclusive of the "moon".

Also, I respect you, Greenslade. I want to add only that my own belief is that any genuinely enlightened person is naturally modest/humble/of humility - without so, their enlightenment is not even true.

Well wishes

We're actually not so far apart, Blossoming. In the Tao Te Ching, Lao Tzu said that "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The Tao is the Mother of all Things." Depending on which translation you choose of course. Some have said that we are the Tao and/or the Tao is within us. The Tao Te Ching is more of a philosophy of Life itself rather than a bundle of concepts or a religion, which is probably why my own Spirituality is as it is because it was one of the first Spiritual books I read. Spirituality does make sense, 'make sense' being the operative phrase, because it's when we loose our minds we come to our senses. Heart-based, Gnostic - you know without knowing how you know but you also know that it goes beyond enlightenment because enlightenment is mind-based.

There are things beyond words, beyond our ability to vocalise them and perhaps beyond our need to, granted there's sometimes a need to communicate and not being able to communicate at that level is frustrating. But Spirituality is always 'in here' and not 'out there'.

I choose my words carefully sometimes, so choosing carefully with this one - Namaste, Blossoming.

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Greenslade,

For your consideration:



First part true.
Second part conditionally qualified by the first part.
Third part false, or also conditionally true, but that's not the whole comprehensive truth of it.

Rather, it is spirituality that is inclusive of religion.

It just appears that spirituality 'comes out of' religion because for many and especially recently, religion has been a common and highly visible vehicle for human evolution, but that is changing...

God created and IS everything (including man).
Spirituality is the general ongoing process of enlightenment e.g., the evolution of/in the dynamic multiplicity REALIZING that all is God.

Life is the general process and the possibility of enlightenment beginning from ignorance and inconscience.
Human life is the potential for the inevitability of that realization, precisely because of the conscious deliberate approach by an intelligent will intrinsic to human life.
Therefore, Spirituality is God realizing Self, eventually in and through the human life.

Religion (which was at one time a radical departure in its own right) is a collective human institution which is a specific subsidiary form of Spirituality. In its various forms, it is a ‘stepping stone’ that has been a useful expedient to that evolutionary process during humanity’s infancy (which btw is largely over).
Accordingly…

Awakened individuals, i.e., now self-consciously aware of the Spiritual potential available within themselves,
are increasingly required to explore newer, more conscious, more deliberate forms of Spirituality in decentralized personal ways - self-initiated and intuitively directed - rather than assent by default to the imposition of external, uniform, conventional structures of ‘traditional’ religion, mostly inherited by region, family, tribe, nationality, etc., which will gradually diminish as a viable expedient as human beings evolve, and the culture 'globalizes'.

But still and all, spirituality is ever the general process of revelation and realization of true self-Identity,
especially when consciously and deliberately undertaken by human beings - which may include religion.
It's not an artifact or subset of religion per se, since spirituality precedes and supersedes religion, but religion can, does and has served as a conduit for an emergent spirituality during a phase of human evolution when that becomes conscious, personal and more self-directed.

In the future religion as we know it will not even exist...but spirituality will certainly persist.

~ J

Hi there Jyotir

There's nothing in your post that I could come up with a decent argument against, being honest, because all of it is close enough to my own perspective as to make no real difference. I could have phrased it better because I didn't mean to imply religion includes Spirituality, as you say it's Spirituality that includes religion. This seems to be the tail-end of a flushing-out of stale paradigms that no longer serve me, and even the word 'Spirituality' doesn't seem to serve any more. I do understand what you're saying, but words create worlds and for the time being it doesn't resonate with my world. Perhaps in a world yet to come.... and in an irony that isn't lost that too is a part of the general process of revelation and realisation - self initiated and intuitively directed because this is what I feel I need to do.

[virtue121]

A society of enlightened people would either be vegetarian/vegan or maybe even breatharian.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I was reading a piece about constructive vs non-constructive beliefs, and I suppose you could include destructive ones as well. Constructive beliefs 'stand the test' and don't crumble at the hint of a challenge while non-constructive ones do. I often wonder how many harbour non-constructive beliefs and the reasons.

Discernment is something we can all practice and I wonder how different these boards would be if they did?

I often wonder how enlightened people really are and if they listen to themselves; if they are a 'Spiritual person' what are they saying? Yeah I know it's good grammar but it still puts the Spiritual first - or more correctly their definitions of Spiritual. Words create worlds.

There are reasons that religions can't really be spiritual, mainly because they are organised and have to be upheld and maintained, but they are basically a thought construct like any social or cultural paradigm, and thought is of an imaginary nature, temporal, unlasting, inevitably in passing, but the spiritual pertains to that which is present, and doesn't arise or pass away. I tire of the special reverence paid to religions, which are not alive in the universe, and represent so much clinging to what amounts to thought. Hence we might say the spiritual encompasses religion in so much as it includes any other thought, but becomes perverse due to the importance these religious thoughts are given. Then we see so obviously the conflict in minds caused by such a strong clinging, which erupts in the sorts of violence that predominate in global conflicts today. It seems simple to say that clinging to thought, holding on to the 'known' is the defining characteristic of bondage. But then it is not politically correct to express the imaginary nature of religion, of nation, and the other symbolic structures that produce an imaginary society of constructed identities and organisations. The real society, which is the actual living relationship between people, seems to go practically unnoticed.

Now they want another organised structure we can identify as an 'enlightened society', but it's obvious that people have to conform to the social paradigm so they can identify with it, or otherwise identify in contrast to it, so we can only end up with another identity crisis, which I suggest directly contradicts the enlightenment.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by virtue121

A society of enlightened people would either be vegetarian/vegan or maybe even breatharian.

This is about enlightened people, not ascended people. More likely they would eat Human food (not just vegetables).

"Is there a society for enlightened people?"..........Perhaps the closest thing that I can think of would be the Quakers that practice unprogramed worship. Not to say that they are composed on enlightened people but that their system provides the greatest possibility for enlightenment in a formal or organized system. The emphasis on silence provides an excellent means for accessing the spiritual. Basically devoid of dogma, creed etc. Also based on the assumption of an inner light whose access is privately achieved or arrived at. I would not judge the efficacy of their beliefs or methods by the number of adherents which is relatively small. There are not enough bells and whistles to appeal to modern sensibilities and not fast track enough to appeal to those who desire a quick fix.

In contrast if religions intend to be manipulative(as religious detractors so often assert) these same religions are taking a calculated risk when they invite their adherents to sincere, dedicated and true prayer. If one is actually engaged in silent prayer that religion has no control of what the Divine might convey to those individuals. In many cases this encouragement of prayer has resulted in the abandonment of formal religion. I suspect this is the case with more than a few who frequent forums such as this. In effect there are many who decry the very ones that motivated them and introduced them to the spiritual paths that they now embrace.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Molearner

"Is there a society for enlightened people?"..........Perhaps the closest thing that I can think of would be the Quakers that practice unprogramed worship. Not to say that they are composed on enlightened people but that their system provides the greatest possibility for enlightenment in a formal or organized system. The emphasis on silence provides an excellent means for accessing the spiritual. Basically devoid of dogma, creed etc. Also based on the assumption of an inner light whose access is privately achieved or arrived at. I would not judge the efficacy of their beliefs or methods by the number of adherents which is relatively small. There are not enough bells and whistles to appeal to modern sensibilities and not fast track enough to appeal to those who desire a quick fix.

In contrast if religions intend to be manipulative(as religious detractors so often assert) these same religions are taking a calculated risk when they invite their adherents to sincere, dedicated and true prayer. If one is actually engaged in silent prayer that religion has no control of what the Divine might convey to those individuals. In many cases this encouragement of prayer has resulted in the abandonment of formal religion. I suspect this is the case with more than a few who frequent forums such as this. In effect there are many who decry the very ones that motivated them and introduced them to the spiritual paths that they now embrace.

Well said.