Will science ever be able to prove the afterlife?

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Scommstech

Out of interest, if you believe that there is no future does that mean that for you there is no tomorrow, or any days after. If that's the case why plan anything.

As the mind body organism we have no choice but to plan for tomorrow, we are living in this dream and a tomorrow is part of that dream.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

I've studied a lot of NDEs, and most of them (by that I mean about 90%) are contradictive to your view that there is only ''consciousness'' after death. But if those are your Buddhist views or something like that it's alright. At least it still sounds a lot better than the Christian based afterlife.

NDE's are just that near death, but not death, when you are truly dead you are dead, the chemicals that are produced by the brain makes us imagine all sorts of things.

[Scommstech]

Originally Posted by revolver

NDE's are just that near death, but not death, when you are truly dead you are dead, the chemicals that are produced by the brain makes us imagine all sorts of things.

I would agree that NDE can't be see as prove of an after life, but there are many examples of people who to all intents and purposes did die and then "came" back.
I'm not too sure what actually constitutes death because medical science has fixed criteria as to death and many patients pronounced dead by the medical profession have suddenly returned to life. Even brain activity is not a sound indicator of life as again people have regained consciousness having previously shown no "recorded" brain activity.
I sometimes think that cells can go into a dormant or hibernation like stage due to shock or an abnormal event. If they stay in that state they will eventually cease to function and die. The body can then be thought of as truly dead, and decay will set in. But this may be days after the official verdict is given by the medical profession. The body I believe is under the control of something not fully understood by man. We have conveniently called it the soul but it has the power of life and death over the body. I believe that if the soul for whatever reason decides to "reactivate" the body and the cells are still capable of activation then life will again be seen in that body.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by revolver

No, I cannot agree with that, I hold onto nothing when I die, I will be, what I was before I was born, and that is pure Consciousness, this Consciousness is the blissfulness that animates through all, its just the mind that veils it from us. The belief in an after life is just that, a belief, this belief is from the ego that never wants to die, we as the mind body organism are truly the selfish gen.

I'll be incorporating this unique experience of being physical, into the very essence of my being, along with the powerful hosts of insights that accompanies such a fascinating exposure to this intimate journey via the perceptions of a life-time.

Why would our soul bother with such an elaborate affair if it was just going to flush it upon journey's end? Are you suggesting that our soul is this trite?

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Scommstech

I would agree that NDE can't be see as prove of an after life, but there are many examples of people who to all intents and purposes did die and then "came" back.
I'm not too sure what actually constitutes death because medical science has fixed criteria as to death and many patients pronounced dead by the medical profession have suddenly returned to life. Even brain activity is not a sound indicator of life as again people have regained consciousness having previously shown no "recorded" brain activity.
I sometimes think that cells can go into a dormant or hibernation like stage due to shock or an abnormal event. If they stay in that state they will eventually cease to function and die. The body can then be thought of as truly dead, and decay will set in. But this may be days after the official verdict is given by the medical profession. The body I believe is under the control of something not fully understood by man. We have conveniently called it the soul but it has the power of life and death over the body. I believe that if the soul for whatever reason decides to "reactivate" the body and the cells are still capable of activation then life will again be seen in that body.

That could be so, but unlikely, when the blood supply to the brain is cut of for more than five or so minutes it is then brain dead, it will never become alive again. Nothing magical happens to the body, in cases where people seemed dead were actually not dead, most of these NDE stories never hold up under scientific investigation, the stories are mostly exaggerated when looked into.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by organic born

I'll be incorporating this unique experience of being physical, into the very essence of my being, along with the powerful hosts of insights that accompanies such a fascinating exposure to this intimate journey via the perceptions of a life-time.

Why would our soul bother with such an elaborate affair if it was just going to flush it upon journey's end? Are you suggesting that our soul is this trite?

Tell me, what exactly is a soul, not something you read, but your own experience.

[Scommstech]

Originally Posted by revolver

Tell me, what exactly is a soul, not something you read, but your own experience.

The soul is just a man made word, used to describe something about us that we feel exists and has come to be used to describes what we believe to be our true self, not the material self that we see in the mirror.
Our true self (if you believe in creation) is good, honest, protective, all the positive things that you can't actually touch.
I would say that our true identity (soul) consists of all these things. The material you is the application of these various qualities.
Your earlier post stated that if a cell (brain) is devoid of oxygen for approx. 5 minutes it dies. Many people have been submerged in freezing water for much longer than this and recovered fully.
This actually falls in line with Einstein's E=MC^2. The translation from thought to matter depends on resonance or frequency. Cold water has a different resonance to warm water.
The scenario that you present seem to deal in black and white, were as daily, new concepts appear that are anything but black and white.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by revolver

Tell me, what exactly is a soul, not something you read, but your own experience.

You'll know it when you see it. To be more exact, as your focus on being the conditioned individual that you, and each one of us are, subsides with our passing, then the clarity of our soul-self becomes immediately obvious. The reading that I do is mostly an attempt to catch-up mentally with what the core of my inner-self is already aware of. "Experience" is what drives my curiosity. The reading is simply a desire to provide some framework that I can relate-to that respectfully coincides with my experiences. For me, it's been experience first, with the reading as follow-up.

Pretty-much 99% of most all that we relate-to as a physically-focused individual is contained within the experience of this lifetime. So most if not all the imagery that we bring to the table on this subject will be contained within our exposures since this latest/current birth.

We are, in essence, memorized by "this" lifetimes perceptions.

So if I talk to you about "experience" you will be using what you've been exposed to, in relation to this lifetime, in order to evaluate what it is that I'm saying. Anything that's outside of your "current" perceptions will be treated as synthetic beliefs. I'm confronted with the same thing when I'm reading the stuff that you're writing. My conditioning within this lifetime is the primary tool that I'm having to use in order to interpret my current exposures. While my "spiritual" experiences provides some degree of "overview" they are still subjected to my current means of perceiving. I do the reading that I do to help stretch my current definitions as an attempt to bridge the gap between what I inwardly-know as it contrasts with what I conditionally-assume.

So in addressing your question, I can't share with you directly my experience on this subject because it'll have to be translated into a verbal language of mentalist images, from-which you'd evaluate based on your intellectual orientations at present. I can not tell you nothing new-to-you when it comes to my own direct experiences. I can only stand there and wave and intellectually point in a general and non-specific direction.

That being said, my experience tells me that yes we are soul. You were, before you got here, you will be after you leave. The fact that you're present and can read what I'm saying is prof enough of this being the case.

Our current experience with innate awareness is all the proof that we need that we are of-soul. We're just confused by this process of defining. Release this describing for a moment and just-be. Do you see it? You are a "presence". This presence is independent, it's not dependent on context, it's with you all along, and without interruption. Your soul is without thought, it just is. And you are it, it is you. Should you awaken to this knowing, and ride along with it, then you shall be sharing within some of my experience. :)

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Scommstech

The soul is just a man made word, used to describe something about us that we feel exists and has come to be used to describes what we believe to be our true self, not the material self that we see in the mirror.
Our true self (if you believe in creation) is good, honest, protective, all the positive things that you can't actually touch.
I would say that our true identity (soul) consists of all these things. The material you is the application of these various qualities.
Your earlier post stated that if a cell (brain) is devoid of oxygen for approx. 5 minutes it dies. Many people have been submerged in freezing water for much longer than this and recovered fully.
This actually falls in line with Einstein's E=MC^2. The translation from thought to matter depends on resonance or frequency. Cold water has a different resonance to warm water.
The scenario that you present seem to deal in black and white, were as daily, new concepts appear that are anything but black and white.

The body metabolism slows right down when in cold water, doesn't mean you are dead.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by organic born

You'll know it when you see it. To be more exact, as your focus on being the conditioned individual that you, and each one of us are, subsides with our passing, then the clarity of our soul-self becomes immediately obvious. The reading that I do is mostly an attempt to catch-up mentally with what the core of my inner-self is already aware of. "Experience" is what drives my curiosity. The reading is simply a desire to provide some framework that I can relate-to that respectfully coincides with my experiences. For me, it's been experience first, with the reading as follow-up.

Pretty-much 99% of most all that we relate-to as a physically-focused individual is contained within the experience of this lifetime. So most if not all the imagery that we bring to the table on this subject will be contained within our exposures since this latest/current birth.

We are, in essence, memorized by "this" lifetimes perceptions.

So if I talk to you about "experience" you will be using what you've been exposed to, in relation to this lifetime, in order to evaluate what it is that I'm saying. Anything that's outside of your "current" perceptions will be treated as synthetic beliefs. I'm confronted with the same thing when I'm reading the stuff that you're writing. My conditioning within this lifetime is the primary tool that I'm having to use in order to interpret my current exposures. While my "spiritual" experiences provides some degree of "overview" they are still subjected to my current means of perceiving. I do the reading that I do to help stretch my current definitions as an attempt to bridge the gap between what I inwardly-know as it contrasts with what I conditionally-assume.

So in addressing your question, I can't share with you directly my experience on this subject because it'll have to be translated into a verbal language of mentalist images, from-which you'd evaluate based on your intellectual orientations at present. I can not tell you nothing new-to-you when it comes to my own direct experiences. I can only stand there and wave and intellectually point in a general and non-specific direction.

That being said, my experience tells me that yes we are soul. You were, before you got here, you will be after you leave. The fact that you're present and can read what I'm saying is prof enough of this being the case.

Our current experience with innate awareness is all the proof that we need that we are of-soul. We're just confused by this process of defining. Release this describing for a moment and just-be. Do you see it? You are a "presence". This presence is independent, it's not dependent on context, it's with you all along, and without interruption. Your soul is without thought, it just is. And you are it, it is you. Should you awaken to this knowing, and ride along with it, then you shall be sharing within some of my experience. :)

It seem that what you say is how I see our true Self, my experience beyond the mind was an awakening I had, in the awakening I experienced all that there is, all was One. We are all One in Consciousness, or the Source, the mind body arises from the Source and when it dies the Source is still there, it hasn't gone anywhere, this is my experience.