What if Jesus never said to give to Caesar?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by foundation123

Reg "Only to those you approve of"

Isn't it common sense?

Should be generous only to the deserving.

Love does not mean condoning evil.

You seem to believe that the "common sense" is your sense ...

Originally Posted by inavalan

You seem to believe that the "common sense" is your sense ...

Hehe, I once used to like to think I had common sense. But now I don't say that as I figure if my sense is common it is more likely to be non-sense.

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by inavalan

You seem to believe that the "common sense" is your sense ...

Isn't it?

Unfortunate for you, if you cant even think that your sense is common sense.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by foundation123

Isn't it?

Unfortunate for you, if you cant even think that your sense is common sense.

I touched a nerve ... Ouch!

[Ordnael]

If you ask someone why was Jesus crucified, the answer is not very clear. I study religions and I'm not too sure about it myself.

Most will emphasize the fact that he proclaimed himself to be a king, which caused an outrage in the roman empire. Nonetheless, if you pay attention and read in Luke 23:1-2, he was brought before Pilate under the accusation of resisting the paying of taxes.

Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, "We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.

It is hard to believe that making supposedly absurd claims should be enough to get someone executed, specially considering he wasn't harming anyone, quite the opposite.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Ordnael

If you ask someone why was Jesus crucified, the answer is not very clear. .

It is hard to believe that making supposedly absurd claims should be enough to get someone executed,
specially considering he wasn't harming anyone, quite the opposite.

Rome did not tolerate subversives, rebel rousers.
It was their way or the highway.

[Morpheus]

Really "Ordnael"... It's a mystery to you?

You've studied religion? That right?

Big mystery?

Originally Posted by Ordnael

If you ask someone why was Jesus crucified, the answer is not very clear. I study religions and I'm not too sure about it myself.

Most will emphasize the fact that he proclaimed himself to be a king, which caused an outrage in the roman empire. Nonetheless, if you pay attention and read in Luke 23:1-2, he was brought before Pilate under the accusation of resisting the paying of taxes.

Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, "We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.

It is hard to believe that making supposedly absurd claims should be enough to get someone executed, specially considering he wasn't harming anyone, quite the opposite.

The Roman Empire had far more territory then they could police with their army alone. So like all empires, they struck deals with the local leaders. In Judea, the local kings and religious authorities kept the peace and made sure Rome got it's taxes, and in exchange they got to live in wealth and luxury. This arrangement also meant that Rome did not need to have as big a military presence in the area freeing them up for use in other parts of the empire... and that the Israelites did not need to be slaughtered to maintain roman authority. Yeah, it ain't the same as freedom, but on the other hand trade did flourish under the central authority of one empire and every little nation state was not always at war with every other little nation state so the arrangement did have its advantages as well.

The thing that made Judea such a problematic territory to govern was it was so religions and more importantly so devoutly monotheistic, so much so that the threat of Roman violence was not as strong a deterrent. However, if you could get the local religious leaders to cooperate, then they could help convince the populous that God doesn't necessarily want one to sacrifice their life fighting the Romans. A compromise was soon struck. The Jews got to have their temple and worship their God and Rome gave them a rare exemption from having to worship the roman gods.

What made Jesus a threat to Rome was his undermining of the authority of the Jewish religious leaders. Actually Jesus was not preaching anything directly threatening against the Romans, and was even saying go ahead and pay your taxes and even dining with tax collectors. However, if the people lost respect for the religious authorities, the Pharisees and Scribes, then they may lose control of the people, leading to uprising and rebellion. Meaning Rome would have to allocate additional Roman Legions into the area to control the population itself. Meaning all those taxes collected would end up having to be spent paying for it. Meaning the Emperor and Senate would be really angry with Pilot for allowing such a costly mess to happen. And so Jesus's woes to the Scribes and Pharisees could end up with Pilot being rather woeful. And of course if the Scribes and Pharisees did lose the respect and control of the Jewish people, Rome would have no reason to keep them around as they were no longer useful anyway, so they could have ended up rather woeful as well. So you can see why both the Jewish religious authorities and the local Roman authorities both wanted him silenced.

I expect Jesus understood this but felt his message was important enough that he was willing to pay the price that he did.

[Ordnael]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Really "Ordnael"... It's a mystery to you?

You've studied religion? That right?

Big mystery?

You seem to want to say something but perhaps your mind is inhibiting you.

Did I misquote Luke?

Originally Posted by ketzer

What made Jesus a threat to Rome was his undermining of the authority of the Jewish religious leaders. Actually Jesus was not preaching anything directly threatening against the Romans, and was even saying go ahead and pay your taxes and even dining with tax collectors.

What he stood for, what he did and what he preached is a matter of endless debate. If one is to simply believe in the gospels, canonical and noncanonical, then there's absolutely no consensus about his life. I won't even start quoting more Gnostic material because we're in the Christian forum, so there's no point.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Ordnael

If you ask someone why was Jesus crucified, the answer is not very clear. I study religions and I'm not too sure about it myself.

Most will emphasize the fact that he proclaimed himself to be a king, which caused an outrage in the roman empire. Nonetheless, if you pay attention and read in Luke 23:1-2, he was brought before Pilate under the accusation of resisting the paying of taxes.

Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, "We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.

It is hard to believe that making supposedly absurd claims should be enough to get someone executed, specially considering he wasn't harming anyone, quite the opposite.

Not sure what's your point ... but you can get quick clarification about that story form what you referenced: https://biblehub.com/bsb/luke/23.htm (I just googled ...)

22 A third time he said to them, “What evil has this man done? I have found in Him no offense worthy of death. So after I punish Him, I will release Him.”

23 But they were insistent, demanding with loud voices for Jesus to be crucified. And their clamor prevailed. 24 So Pilate sentenced that their demand be met. 25 As they had requested, he released the one imprisoned for insurrection and murder, and handed Jesus over to their will.

The crowd (peaceful protesters) wanted him dead, and the murderer released.