Pagan Genocide

At the forefront of Christian crimes, at least in my mind, is the Spanish inquisition. This was following the successful campaign in the 14th century to expel the Black Moors from Spain who had invaded in 711. The Moors had spread Islam right the way across North Africa and into Southern Spain - what a different place the world would be if this had not taken place.

The Christians decreed that all Jews had to either leave spain (most went into portugal and Italy) or convert to Christianity. Many Jews were baptised as a result. But many were either secretly practising their Jewish faith, or suspected of practising, and therefore tortured, or burned at the stake.

Numbers have been wildly exaggerated in terms of how man Jews were exterminated. The most agreed upon numbers are probably around 5000.

What's this have to do with Paganism? Well, it's a bit of a jump but here goes. In the 4th century Paganism (a rather nebulous term I know, if anyone wishes to correct me feel free) came under serious flak within the Roman empire. We here of many persecutions and forced conversions ever since. But again one of the most, if not the most horrific crimes, against Pagans and against women was the witch hunts. It is estimated this resulted in 40 - 60,000 executions, women generally being burned alive across Europe.

Do you think these Pagans, these innocent people who were burned for not bowing to Roman Catholic might, or perhaps just being at the wrong place at the wrong time deserve more attention? Have they been overshadowed by things like the inquisition? Even forgotten?

There has been a call from neo-pagans for the pope to apologise, to which he seems to have obliged in a rather 'sweeping' statement. Is this enough?

(edit: I didn't know while writing this post, turns out the pope has resigned... weird.)

(edited by SF staff)

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine

At the forefront of Christian crimes, at least in my mind, is the Spanish inquisition. This was following the successful campaign in the 14th century to expel the Black Moors from Spain who had invaded in 711. The Moors had spread Islam right the way across North Africa and into Southern Spain - what a different place the world would be if this had not taken place.

The Christians decreed that all Jews had to either leave spain (most went into portugal and Italy) or convert to Christianity. Many Jews were baptised as a result. But many were either secretly practising their Jewish faith, or suspected of practising, and therefore tortured, or burned at the stake.

Numbers have been wildly exaggerated in terms of how man Jews were exterminated. The most agreed upon numbers are probably around 5000.

What's this have to do with Paganism? Well, it's a bit of a jump but here goes. In the 4th century Paganism (a rather nebulous term I know, if anyone wishes to correct me feel free) came under serious flak within the Roman empire. We here of many persecutions and forced conversions ever since. But again one of the most, if not the most horrific crimes, against Pagans and against women was the witch hunts. It is estimated this resulted in 40 - 60,000 executions, women generally being burned alive across Europe.

Do you think these Pagans, these innocent people who were burned for not bowing to Roman Catholic might, or perhaps just being at the wrong place at the wrong time deserve more attention? Have they been overshadowed by things like the inquisition? Even forgotten?

There has been a call from neo-pagans for the pope to apologise, to which he seems to have obliged in a rather 'sweeping' statement. Is this enough?

(edit: I didn't know while writing this post, turns out the pope has resigned... weird.)

Yes--I read about his resignation (briefly) this morning.

Greetings John Constantine--merry do we meet and well met we are (indeed).

I am in no need of apologies. I would simply be grateful if we could all just recognize that we are all parts of the whole and learn to accept and love one another as we are.

I am in a very sad situation right now regarding this very thing.

I have been widowed for (5) years and have met a man who (for the second time in my life--it happened the first time w/ my husband) I recognized on sight.

We recognized each other and have been together before--in another life.

We are friends and becoming closer as his divorce is nearing its completion--but the relationship can never be more than friendship--
because he is an evangelistic Christian.

I am out-numbered in rural Texas and can never let him close enough to find out who and what I truly am.

I have taken vows and must honor them and my continued service to the Goddess and he will never understand--or be able to keep my secret.

I just do not understand why it has to be this way. Why do we seem unable to learn from past mistakes and atrocities and evolve to a place of acceptance.

We could all be friends. We could accomplish so very much (together)--
if we could only set aside the fear--pride--and arrogance.

My dream is that some day we will learn that there is room at the table for all of us and recognize that we can all contribute to the whole.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

I agree that all the apologies in the world, nor any actions now, can change what happened in the past. It happened. The only thing that can really be done is to take steps to change the present and the future......

[norseman]

Great care is needed when considering the witch hunts and the burnings. There was a lot of exaggeration and misdirection. It begins in a small German city [I forget which one]. The mayor estimated the number of executions, then scaled the number up to cover the whole country. Also, most of the burnings were of Christian heretics.

But, yes, interesting that the pope should resign now just as another Catholic scandal is hotting up - the Magdalene Laundries - look them up !

Lady T - you need to move to UK ! None of that nonsense here [although we have other forms of nonsense of course ]

[psychoslice]

There is no one living today that was responsible for the past, sometimes we just have to let go and move on, and never let it happen again.

[Seawolf]

The only reason we're angry about what people did such a long time is that they're still around today and in our lives. The pagan/Christian tension is still around, which makes the pain of the past come into the present. Otherwise if Christianity was gone it would just be history, but it's still around and still causing problems. All big corporations cause problems for people, it's the nature of the beast.

[Miss Hepburn]

I don't know how anyone ( a close friend) could want anything to do with
A Church that slaughtered innocent people as they were collecting herbs in the field.
I, for one, would luv if the Vatican would denounce the ignorant, violent past they are a part of..
Oh, well, I guess that will never happen....because it isn't the past...it still goes on.**

Interesting the 12c prophecy that was on Coast to coast am last night about the next pope...the last of 112 that was in the vision...Peter? And Nostradamus'...that he would be black...all that can be googled, also.

Edit: ** referring to the pediphelia mainly.

[norseman]

Miss H. Read up on the Magdalene Laundries - the current breaking scandal involving the Catholic Church

It's good to see a number of interesting replies to my first post. I will try and address them further at some point but I am at work, toiling away as I must.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I, for one, would luv if the Vatican would denounce the ignorant, violent past they are a part of..

In fairness to Pope John Paul the second, as Popes go, he was quite good at admitting where and when the church was wrong: I'm not allowed to post urls yet but google 'list of apologies by Pope John Paul II'

That said, when you look at this list, it boggles the mind that for many this is the pinnacle of holiness.

[Miss Hepburn]

Oh, I also see while looking up John Paul that Benedict apologized for sex
scandals in 2010, but as the headline
Said, "No penalty".
Yes, that Magdalene movie was too intense for me to watch...I am aware of the
Terrible, terrible situation, but don't want to dwell on it, ick.
That church has its problems and skeletons.