real spirituality vs. psychedelic experiences

[gib65]

Hello,

I'm not sure if this fits under Philosophy & Theory, but it seems like the best forum to post this in.

I wanted to start a discussion on the link between psychedelic drugs and spiritual experiences. I want to know if anyone here thinks there is a real link between them or it's all just a facade, chemicals in the brain making you think you're having spiritual experiences when really they're just delusions or hallucinations.

I'm a drug user myself and I've had many experiences which I would call "spiritual". Mainly, I find that drugs wake one up to certain spiritual truths, even if only about one's self. But this is very different from an experience like astral projection, for example, or OBEs (which can be had on certain drug, DMT for example, or so I'm told). My drug experiences have never given me an experience like this (never tried DMT), nor have I seen angels or heard God speaking to me, nor seen miracles happen right before my eyes--nothing like that--but they've taught me a lot about what "spirit" is and made me a firm believer not only in God but that God is the universe. I don't typically take the delusions I experience while high, or the hallucinations I see, as reality, but I do reflect on the fact that I had these experiences, and I think about what that implies about consciousness and the brain, and my thoughts have lead me to some deeply spiritual insights.

I'm wondering if anyone has had similar experience with drugs, and what can they tell me about their authenticity vis-a-vis spiritual reality.

[lilith]

I think there's so much about consciousness, reality and truth we don't understand if we try to explain it scientifically. Anything goes, that feels right with you, as long as you do no harm, to yourself and others. It is all just a tool and how you use it, what for depends where it'll take you. You seem to be fine and I pretty much agree with your experiences. I've too watched a lot of documentaries about ayahuasca and seems like a true gem of nature. I'm interested in what others will say...

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by gib65

Hello,

I'm not sure if this fits under Philosophy & Theory, but it seems like the best forum to post this in.

I wanted to start a discussion on the link between psychedelic drugs and spiritual experiences. I want to know if anyone here thinks there is a real link between them or it's all just a facade, chemicals in the brain making you think you're having spiritual experiences when really they're just delusions or hallucinations.

I'm a drug user myself and I've had many experiences which I would call "spiritual". Mainly, I find that drugs wake one up to certain spiritual truths, even if only about one's self. But this is very different from an experience like astral projection, for example, or OBEs (which can be had on certain drug, DMT for example, or so I'm told). My drug experiences have never given me an experience like this (never tried DMT), nor have I seen angels or heard God speaking to me, nor seen miracles happen right before my eyes--nothing like that--but they've taught me a lot about what "spirit" is and made me a firm believer not only in God but that God is the universe. I don't typically take the delusions I experience while high, or the hallucinations I see, as reality, but I do reflect on the fact that I had these experiences, and I think about what that implies about consciousness and the brain, and my thoughts have lead me to some deeply spiritual insights.

I'm wondering if anyone has had similar experience with drugs, and what can they tell me about their authenticity vis-a-vis spiritual reality.

FWIW I don't think chemicals in the brain cause spiritual experiences, I think chemicals in the brain are effected by spiritual experiences.

the drugs that are typically available to people at large are apparently just a small number of the possibilities. As an example, I read about south american spiritual leaders (that isn't quite the correct terminology but can't remember the proper word for them now) knew how to find a mushroom that would induce 'time travel' so they traveled around in time and even saw the wheel of time sometimes... and I read I think about native americans could in older times use various herbs to travel to spirit worlds. Some of that may have been similar to astral projection, I don't know. Some of that may still go on today...

Personally I think, that for any spiritual trait you could think of, there would be some sort of herb or fruit or mushroom that would accentuate it. Same for infirmity, for anything that makes you sick you could find a herb or fruit or mushroom that would cure it. But the chances for most of us to find these things are slim to none because a lot of us live in places that have mostly been (essentially) terraformed... and besides we've been taught not to eat things we aren't familiar with because some of them seem deadly

[Visitor]

Hello gib65.
Truth is the only real spiritual experience. Only you can discern what is the truth of your experiences.
Remember, the expression of truth is unconditional love. If that is not included in the experience, then it is not a real spiritual experience.IMHO

[MARDAV70]

Originally Posted by Visitor

Hello gib65.
Truth is the only real spiritual experience. Only you can discern what is the truth of your experiences.
Remember, the expression of truth is unconditional love. If that is not included in the experience, then it is not a real spiritual experience.IMHO

Bingo...! BINGO...!!

[Nowayout]

Pain is also a teacher.

I will not expand on it..... the lesson will.

Mind expansion can hurt, but it can heal indirectly.

[goodbyesociety]

Interesting question and replies. I'm on the fence about whether to try an ayahuasca retreat or not but probably not - i'm hypersensitive and prone to panic attacks when I take substances. But a few interviews from Graham Hancock did tempt me into trying the ayahuasca experience.

[Reincar-Nation]

Interesting discussion, but careful this topic is actually off limits, rules against drug talk....

[Pagandell]

People who dis high's from plants and herbs come on like there so sure there are no spiritual vibes going on, how can they be so sure. I mean when you go into higher dimensions that's spiritual yeah and that's what the magic herb does ..................

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Pagandell

People who dis high's from plants and herbs come on like there so sure there are no spiritual vibes going on, how can they be so sure. I mean when you go into higher dimensions that's spiritual yeah and that's what the magic herb does ..................

well in keeping with the fact this is a philosophy board... I think it isn't so true that things 'are' what they are 'called' I think we call them what we like then try to make others conform to our definition.

Whether or not it is spiritual is ONLY related to whether you want to call it spiritual. Nothing else.