The Holy Spirit

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by django

Luke 3:21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

Yes, it does seem like the Holy Spirit descending is the moment when something new begins. The doorway between heaven and earth first needs to be opened. And it also seems that it might be visible or audible to other people around you.

An absolute moment, a blessing direct from God.

Why fire indeed. To Moses God appeared in a burning bush, to the people at Pentecost as tongues of flame, but to Jesus a dove??? And at another time a "bright" cloud.

Matthew 17:5
While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him!"

God appears less fiery the closer you are to him? Is the fire to burn away something, which had already been burnt away only in Jesus?

There is a lot here to think about so I will just comment on the Dove which was the first descent of the Holy Spirit.
The Dove to us now, represents peace and baptism but we have to put our self back to the time it happened and the Dove had a different meaning.

"After 40 days pass, Noah opens the door of the ark and sends out a raven. The raven is a scavenger that feeds off the flesh of the dead However, the raven does not return. So Noah lets seven days pass and then sends out a dove that soon returns. Noah lets another seven days pass and sends out the dove a second time. It returns again but this time with an olive tree leaf in its beak. Noah sends out the dove a third time and this time the dove does not return. The time to leave the ark and begin a new life on earth had arrived".

This was the beginning of something Big in Gods plan....God does not speak much so for People to hear the voice of God when the spirit descended on Jesus was an important event.

Everyone else gets Fire.....Jesus spoke of Water and the Holy Spirit.
Fire cleanses as does Water.

[barrynu]

Another Question..Is the Holy spirit in us already waiting to be discovered?
or Is it outside, waiting for us to become pure so that it can come in?

[barrynu]

Did Jesus Perform miracles before the Holy Spirit descended?

[django]

Originally Posted by barrynu

There is a lot here to think about so I will just comment on the Dove which was the first descent of the Holy Spirit.
The Dove to us now, represents peace and baptism but we have to put our self back to the time it happened and the Dove had a different meaning.

"After 40 days pass, Noah opens the door of the ark and sends out a raven. The raven is a scavenger that feeds off the flesh of the dead However, the raven does not return. So Noah lets seven days pass and then sends out a dove that soon returns. Noah lets another seven days pass and sends out the dove a second time. It returns again but this time with an olive tree leaf in its beak. Noah sends out the dove a third time and this time the dove does not return. The time to leave the ark and begin a new life on earth had arrived".

This was the beginning of something Big in Gods plan....God does not speak much so for People to hear the voice of God when the spirit descended on Jesus was an important event.

Everyone else gets Fire.....Jesus spoke of Water and the Holy Spirit.
Fire cleanses as does Water.

My take is that Jesus fills us with living water 'so that we will never thirst again', and leads us to the door of the kingdom of heaven. But then the Holy Spirit is from God directly, So first cleanse with water, and then God himself baptises with fire. Maybe stronger, faster, deeper cleansing than with water. Cleansing what cannot be cleansed with water alone.

In my understanding, water cleanses the heart but not the mind, fire cleanses the mind, completely wiping away all trace of what was before. Writing this I remember some Hindu stuff, reducing our small self to ashes,
"There is nothing you can take away from the sacrifice of life, except the burnt remains of your actions (karma), desires and latent impressions (samskaras)." Maybe these can't be burnt away completely by our own hand or even with the help of Jesus, but only by God via the Holy Spirit.

We just have to find the way to open the door to God/the Holy Spirit.

[weareunity]

Hello all.

Father. Son. Holy Spirit.

Love. Loving. Oneness.

So I believe.

petex

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by django

My take is that Jesus fills us with living water 'so that we will never thirst again', and leads us to the door of the kingdom of heaven. But then the Holy Spirit is from God directly, So first cleanse with water, and then God himself baptises with fire. Maybe stronger, faster, deeper cleansing than with water. Cleansing what cannot be cleansed with water alone.

In my understanding, water cleanses the heart but not the mind, fire cleanses the mind, completely wiping away all trace of what was before. Writing this I remember some Hindu stuff, reducing our small self to ashes,
"There is nothing you can take away from the sacrifice of life, except the burnt remains of your actions (karma), desires and latent impressions (samskaras)." Maybe these can't be burnt away completely by our own hand or even with the help of Jesus, but only by God via the Holy Spirit.

We just have to find the way to open the door to God/the Holy Spirit.

I agree and that is what I thought last night.
Jesus gave us the water and we must cleanse our self by following his teachings.
God Cleanses with Fire in the form of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was not cleansed with fire,he did not need cleansing so the holy spirit descended as a dove which marked a new beginning.The new Testament.
The old teachings were confusing and Gods love was mixed with man's/woman's actions which led to stories of a vengeful God.

The Old testament/old teachings/ideas needed cleansing....the easiest example to explain is "an eye for an eye"which Jesus cleansed and he gave us "turn the other cheek"

There is also the idea of the "fire"of hades being something completely different,a resting place of cleansing but that is for a whole new thread.

We cannot do all the cleaning.God send's the Holy Spirit when we are ready so I don't think it is within us waiting.It is outside waiting for us to be pure and of a similar vibration,,, which is the science aspect.It would rip us apart in beauty if it entered us when we were not ready.

We can be pure in the heart but not in the mind as the heart is first to be cleansed.I think Buddhists go about this the other way around,mind first,then heart which can lead to Nirvana,,,that's off topic but It came to me so I mentioned it

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by barrynu

They were changed men and Mary too.
They went out and preached without fear and I believe some were killed as a result.
What changed them was not words from God but the breath of God.
I'm unsure why the Spirit manifested as tongues of Fire..more symbolism that I will ponder.
hmmm.. water,fire,spirit,...courage....Enlightenment???

Even after Witnessing the Miracles of Jesus and his Resurrection,It was the Holy Spirit that brought it all together for them.The Holy Spirit is so important for belief in God.
Jesus brought us the message of love so as to purify our self.
When the Self is pure,The Spirit will fill your being.
Jesus said through him we can get to the kingdom...Through his teachings we can be pure and then allow the spirit to descend and fill us.
Part 1.Jesus
Part 2.The Holy Spirit
Part 3.The Kingdom of Heaven.
Part 4.
Part 5.
Part 6.


fill in the blanks of 4 5 6 yourself as your Eternal Soul has found its way back to God from where it came from.

Based on the story of Pentecost, something extraordinary does seem to have happened to the Apostles on Pentecost. What happened can probably not be described in words.

As you duly noted, however, "Even after Witnessing the Miracles of Jesus and his Resurrection,It was the Holy Spirit that brought it all together for them."

I love what you wrote about purification and allowing the Spirit to emerge (as opposed to descend and fill) since I feel that the Spirit is already there ever-ready to manifest. I believe we are saying the same thing with different words.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by django

We just have to find the way to open the door to God/the Holy Spirit.

When was the door ever closed ?

We do agree on the importance of the Holy Spirit.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by django

We just have to find the way to open the door to God/the Holy Spirit.

hi django,


I could give you tips, if you didn't think me presumptuous as some do on forums.
Your heart is already just fine...all that has to be done is some fine tuning...
like, say, you want to catch that stray kitten...but, ya have to know how to do it and what attracts them or it gets scared away;
It's like a formula.


Or let's say you want to explore NYC, you even have a map... But, it helps

to have a guide; a little help from someone who's been there or lives there.

[davidmartin]

if it helps..
think of the holy spirit as a gift
worship and expressing love for god will get spirit's attention