Krishna

[Bindu*]

The teachings of Krishna such as Bhagavad gita is universal.

Not any followings monopoly.

Almost all swami's and great teachers have commented on the teachings of Krishna in the BH.G. as it is a geniously sumup and blend of the great text of Hindu dharma.

It's such a gift of love !

I prefer the more nondual inclusive commentators on the gita. Prabubhada's monopoly on the teachings don't attract me.

[Podshell]

Reply to SD.


We are able to test gurus, Prabhupada has passed these tests many times, please check out his many question and answer sessions on Youtube.

I have an opposite view in some respect to your own in that someone denigrates, insults and belittles smacks of genuineness, as the fakes will be trying to butter us all up to get our cash etc, so will pander to our whims.

I don't think Prabhupada claims to hold the knowledge but simply refers to the Vedic literature in most cases. He lived the life and followed the rules, he lived by example. Really I am unworthy to try and sell him to people, I should really find his exact words on the subject and post them, there is some confusion though spread by the fakes.

There is plenty of material on this.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pr...w=1920&bih=936

[Podshell]

Originally Posted by Bindu*

The teachings of Krishna such as Bhagavad gita is universal.

Not any followings monopoly.

Almost all swami's and great teachers have commented on the teachings of Krishna in the BH.G. as it is a geniously sumup and blend of the great text of Hindu dharma.

It's such a gift of love !

I prefer the more nondual inclusive commentators on the gita. Prabubhada's monopoly on the teachings don't attract me.

There are many English versions, but Prabhupada's is considered th correct one by many, I think it may be a mistake to try to pick and choose as we will tend to cheat ourselves/and or be cheated (that could be that persons' path anyway, but I think if he or she is sincere they will end up finding the true answers at some point), one idea would be to compare verses from translations , look deeply into them and come to a conclusion as to who is the correct interpretor, this is not monopoly, this is rogues trying to trick people, the Vedas are there for all, a medicine, a cure, so they must be presented as perfectly as possible.

[Shivani Devi]

To each their own, Podshell.

I lived in an ISKCON ashram for 2 years, so basically know the whole 'story'...yeah, Lord Brahma gave it to Manu, Manu gave it to Ishvaku, until eventually, it was given to Prabhupada making him the holder of all the sacred knowledge of the 'true lineage' and yada.

What wasn't pointed out, was that Manu was not ONE man, "Manu" means 'the race of Men' and the race of Mankind had many Sons, Ishvaku being only ONE of them...yeah, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramanuja were also in that line somewhere, but I have yet to see a proven link to any of that lineage beyond the adopted Chaitanya Charitamrita.

I pretty much know the whole institution inside-out and while the actual translation of the Sanskrit text of the Bhagavad Gita was pretty much spot on (with only a few errors I found), it was the whole purports to those translations that Srila Prabhupada took miles of 'personal liberties' with...almost to cringeworthy status and ALL with the intent to establish his own spiritual movement based upon this...and the Vedas, His purports of the translations of holy texts became "the world according to Prabhupada" which had nothing to do with the texts he was writing about....it's what made me leave ISKCON, actually...well that...and their dogged insistence that Shiva was the Hindu version of Satan.

However, there will always be those who will say I have been 'tricked' and there will always be me who says "I am able to think for myself" and those others will say "delusional people cannot think for themselves" and me who will say "let's see who comes back next life, shall we?" because only God can know/judge our Karma and fate, no matter who is 'tricked' and who accuses others of doing the 'tricking'....we'll see who gets Moksha and who does not according to Karma, as that is the only true measure of who is 'telling the truth' and who is 'lying'.

I have an opposite view in some respect to your own in that someone denigrates, insults and belittles smacks of genuineness, as the fakes will be trying to butter us all up to get our cash etc, so will pander to our whims.

Nope, the 'true gurus' will not care about 'other gurus' or who reads their literature and who does not, because it will stand on its OWN merits, without having to insult, calling others 'fakes' or 'tricksters' to sell more of THEIR spirituality, or 'butter up' anybody, or 'pander to anybody's wishes/needs'. A TRUE guru will go "there it is, in pure form, practiced for centuries...either take it or leave it, I care not"...and that's how I tell! They are not about money, institutions, fame, society etc...they are about personal empowerment and enlightenment on an individual, personal basis and they do it out of love and not a sense of duty.

[Podshell]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Nope, the 'true gurus' will not care about 'other gurus' or who reads their literature and who does not, because it will stand on its OWN merits, without having to insult, calling others 'fakes' or 'tricksters' to sell more of THEIR spirituality, or 'butter up' anybody, or 'pander to anybody's wishes/needs'. A TRUE guru will go "there it is, in pure form, practiced for centuries...either take it or leave it, I care not"...and that's how I tell! They are not about money, institutions, fame, society etc...they are about personal empowerment and enlightenment on an individual, personal basis and they do it out of love and not a sense of duty.

Not sure if Prabhupada did care in such a way, he was just answering questions.

Which interpretation does one point to? If someone does not know much about philosophy they go to a bona fide teacher, one who can explain the texts to them, a trusted teacher.

You seem to analyse and think in a simmilar way to myself, the difference being is that I have come to a conclusion that Prabhupada is the real deal, for this day and age at any rate, of course there have been others down the ages, can you point to a better present day one? Someone who has lived impeccably by the regulations, someone who has immersed more of their time in translation of the scripts? No other person has given such a sacrifice.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

Not sure if Prabhupada did care in such a way, he was just answering questions.

Which interpretation does one point to? If someone does not know much about philosophy they go to a bona fide teacher, one who can explain the texts to them, a trusted teacher.

You seem to analyse and think in a simmilar way to myself, the difference being is that I have come to a conclusion that Prabhupada is the real deal, for this day and age at any rate, of course there have been others down the ages, can you point to a better present day one? Someone who has lived impeccably by the regulations, someone who has immersed more of their time in translation of the scripts? No other person has given such a sacrifice.

Many from the Divine Life Society in Rishikesh have given of their time in service and translation of the Holy scriptures...Swami Shivananda, Swami Chidananda, Swami Krishnananda etc just to name a few.

There's also Sri Aurobindo and others.

Put it this way, if Prabhupada 'works for you' and he is your guru, that's cool for you! You have found what it is you think/believe you need, but Prabhupada isn't for everyone...not even me.

We'll do this exercise, for example...you obviously worship Lord Krishna, whilst I worship Lord Shiva...so now we'll do a hypothetical...

You may say "forget loving Lord Shiva and love Lord Krishna instead"...now for me to 'forget loving Lord Shiva' would be like the sun forgetting how to rise...I'm not even able to 'control' what I feel for Shiva so how on earth can I stop loving that which I love unconditionally and with every cell of my being?...I mean, ask Him to stop loving me and see what happens!

It is exactly the same with me and Gurus...I either resonate and accept or I do not and I have no conscious say over the matter because it is a 'past-life thing'.

[Podshell]

Are there instructions that tell you not to offer thanks to the sun and to Lord Shiva ?

We know , in the physical world at least, that the sun is the great provider, I don't think there is any harm in thanking it or the sun God, in fact I think it more beneficial to offer thanks than to ignore its majesty, the same would apply to the great provisions bestowed on us by the cow, many people ignore this, while they butter their toasts asnd drink their tea (with milk).


My conclusions are that Krsna is the ultimate creator and Prabhupada is the modern day messenger, I have not even looked into the work of those others you mention, is it worth it?

[ajay00]

Religions and religious sects are conceptual frameworks that enable one to attain a nonconceptual state of being, without having to go through a parade of neverending conceptualisations in samsara.


Krishna, Shiva, Divine Mother all are different aspects of Saguna Brahman, and by adherence to the path, one can attain purification of consciousness.

Conflict in the name of religion or religious sects however promote discord and an impure consciousness due to the resultant mental agitation, which destroys mental equanimity.

As the Gita stated, " Equanimity of mind is yoga. "

And as Ashoka the Great stated, " Concord is virtue. "

Realising this, let us not create unnecessary discord while discussing over the various aspects of Saguna Brahman.

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by xmode

Hello,
I want to ask, can you be a Krishna's devotee without joining in a community or cult organisation ?

Hi Xmode, yes of course. What is important is your connection to the divine, and Krishna is a fabulous way to connect. Everyone is different, some people see Jesus and their hearts melt, while the same person might look at shiva and be turned off. We are individuals and our relationship with God is an individual thing and God has seen fit to give us many ways to connect to him. So if your heart swells when you look at Krishna, then, you already have a relationship with him!
The various religions and sects have their role, but when you cut through everything it is your relationship with krishna not your teachers that matters and nobody needs to be in a group to worship him, simply talk to him yourself, say a mantra with his name in it, offer everything up to him, this simple relationship is the strongest anyway. Just love him.

[dattaseva]

Just my two cents. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa once said that doctors are of three kinds:

1) A doctor who diagnoses the patient and prescribes the necessary medicines. He then just leaves the patient to his/her own fate. He doesn't care whether the patient uses the medicine or not.

2) The second kind is the doctor who makes the diagnoses, prescribes the required medicine and then through subtle, soft-natured manipulation, tries to ensure that the patient actually sticks to the prescribed regimen and actually recovers.

3) The third kind is extremely rare. This doctor not only prescribes the necessary medicines but also ensures to his maximum capability that the patient sticks to the course of treatment. If need be, he forces down the medicine through the patient's gullet. Such is his dedication to the patient's improvement.

The third kind is the Satguru, who by hook or crook, ensures the upliftment of His devotees. They are the truly rare ones. They will do whatever is necessary, even if it costs Them Their dignity, to cure their devotees of their delusional thinking and set them on the right path.