Citta

[cathutch]

These are the 89 cittas (graphic); for whatever use should be made of it.
Errors should be gladly reported and accepted.

IMHO, this should be "touch and go" knowledge.
We know who dwells in details, let alone more particulars, as in cetasikas.

Cordially.

[sunsoul]

I usually see citta being understood simply as mind. It gets really complex when you break it down into 89 streams... However, the major insight it seems to me is that like the chariot, there is no essential mind, and just a lot of components that at some point in time come together to form something we often, rather lazily, call mind or consciousness.

[cathutch]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

I usually see citta being understood simply as mind.

Mind is Mana or Mano.
In Indian philosophy at large, and Buddhism in particular, CITTA is more an intellectual-emotional locus. Emotional-Intellection, so to speak. And they put that in the Heart.
You might know that Lebanese put the all locus of intelligence in the heart (something that, we westerners, put exclusively in the brain). Sounds like the Indians put it in between, while having it localized in the heart.
It is funny anyway to try thinking with your heart.

It gets really complex when you break it down into 89 streams...

This is pure Patthana Dhamma out of the box.
Nothing added! (but translational definitions; mostly as per Pali Text Society dictionary).

And wait; in the end there are in fact 121 cittas! (combination+ with some Jhana, some say)
I did not go with the 54 cetasikas that follow, though.
Even more useless combinational categorization, IMHO.

However, the major insight it seems to me ...., there is no essential mind..

Who could say it better than you.
Isn't mind what we are trying to get rid of.
Trying to teach the "mentalists" out there that there is as much incomprehension between a man trying to teach a gorilla what "mental" means, than trying to teach these mentalists that there is something more evolved than "mental", let alone physical strength.
I agree my friend.
Mind might be necessary, but certainly not essential. It is just a byproduct of Nama/rupa that leads to all sort of lower level bonds and unneeded individuality.
Un-essential for sure! (in the purely philosophical sense of essential, I mean).
Go have them (the monkeys on steroid brain) figure that out. Big, big headache, I say. They will put a lot of energy in keeping it that way. Very unpleasant (dukkha,) I say!

Cordially.

[sunsoul]

Some good points. Citta is one of the terms used for mind in Buddhism, the others are manas and vijnana. They all have distinct uses but they are all used to describe mind.

Bhikku Bodhi describes it like this:

"The three terms vijñāṇa, mano and citta are synonyms for the mind sense base (mana-ayatana); however, in the Sutta Pitaka, these three terms are generally contextualized differently:

Vijñāṇa refers to awareness through a specific internal sense base, that is, through the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body or mind. Thus, there are six sense-specific types of Vijñāṇa. It is also the basis for personal continuity within and across lives.

Manas refers to mental "actions" (kamma), as opposed to those actions that are physical or verbal. It is also the sixth internal sense base (ayatana), that is, the "mind base," cognizing mental sensa (dhammā) as well as sensory information from the physical sense bases.

Citta includes the formation of thought, emotion and volition; this is thus the subject of Buddhist mental development (bhava), the mechanism for release."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijñāna

Yes, it is often said that citta resides in the heart almost as heart-mind.

One should also note that one of the most influential Buddhist philosophical schools, Yogacara, had close associations with and was also known as Cittamatra (mind only school).

[cathutch]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

Some good points.
.....
Yes, it is often said that citta resides in the heart almost as heart-mind.

Thanks.

I guess that this graphic can be taken as a backbone for those who want to change the translation to their suitable need. GIMP it to your views.
I am not perfect, and just tend to be so.

One should also note that one of the most influential Buddhist philosophical schools, Yogacara, had close associations with and was also know as Cittamatra (mind only school).

Yogacara is a mystical late idealistic school of Buddhism, far from the original first period Buddhism. I personally never refer to it; but third people Buddhist are free to do so.

Always of a great help Sunsoul; with your challenging increased commentaries (even if I do not always agree :)).
Thanks again.
Cordially.

[cathutch]

May I (once more :) refer to Buddha's definition in MN44 about the fabrications of the Citta in Sankhara; namely
"Saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāroti"
Perception & Feeling are the fabrications (determinations) of the citta in sankharakhanda.

Emotional- Intellection, as Buddha seems to view it.

Sankhara khandha > the Gist of Buddhism!