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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #21  
Old 25-11-2017, 08:30 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylama
A new religion will give us a platform for creating some absolutes.
Of course you realise that only the devil deals in absolutes...as they say.
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  #22  
Old 25-11-2017, 08:42 PM
Tanemon Tanemon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylama
My contention is that individuals are not compelled to go that 'step beyond', because the religions of world do not FORCE them down that path. If you believe that failure to take those steps beyond will result in pain and suffering, you are more likely to take those steps beyond. That is why we need a new religion. Nobody's religion FORCES anyone to take the step beyond. There are too many shortcuts to salvation. If I believe that failure to act will not progress me along the path to salvation, I am more likely to take action. Universal belief in this simple, logical model will lead to a more loving society.
It's worth considering your notion that "Nobody's religion FORCES anyone to take the step beyond." There may be a certain general truth to that... but only general. Definitely, countless examples of parents forcing something or other (considered "religious commitment") on their children have occurred through the ages, though I suppose we could deem this to be some sort of outward conformity, rather than the step beyond. Again, zealots have believed they were effectively compelling a commitment from individuals. Example being the Spanish Inquisition, and many wars and persecutions over doctrine.

Tommylama, are you suggesting that only the mystics & gnostics in the various traditions have taken the step beyond? (BTW, maybe I'd agree with that idea.)
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  #23  
Old 25-11-2017, 08:52 PM
tommylama tommylama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Of course you realise that only the devil deals in absolutes...as they say.

In the new religion, the devil disappears. The separated self is responsible for all self-centered decisions and actions. The new religion will teach there are two parts to the self: part animal and part angel.

The animal within is the devil.
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  #24  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:03 PM
tommylama tommylama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanemon
It's worth considering your notion that "Nobody's religion FORCES anyone to take the step beyond." There may be a certain general truth to that... but only general. Definitely, countless examples of parents forcing something or other (considered "religious commitment") on their children have occurred through the ages, though I suppose we could deem this to be some sort of outward conformity, rather than the step beyond. Again, zealots have believed they were effectively compelling a commitment from individuals. Example being the Spanish Inquisition, and many wars and persecutions over doctrine.

Tommylama, are you suggesting that only the mystics & gnostics in the various traditions have taken the step beyond? (BTW, maybe I'd agree with that idea.)

I'm suggesting that we are on a path which leads to perfection. There are Those Who have mastered this path and They influence us from higher dimensions. Most of us are still stuck on the Wheel of Rebirth and will continue with our less than masterful existences until we crucify the animal within which separates us from our human brothers and sisters. We will all take the step beyond, but until we do we will experience suffering. Death does nothing but redeposit the consciousness into a very similar set of circumstances from where it left off.
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  #25  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:07 PM
Lorelyen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanemon
If the course of things were conforming to my preference, humans would recognize value in compassion, benevolence, and basic respect. I think the best aspects of the well-known “world religions” do teach these, along with some notions of self-responsibility. But as has been pointed out these religions have each manifested a culture (or maybe I should say, bred some extremists) that can clash with the cultures manifested in of some of the other religions.

I feel that what religious historians used to call “minor traditions” or “primitive outlooks” often have something which has tended to be overlooked or undervalued by the “world religions” — a sensitivity to ecosystems & the biosphere. I’d say that quality is more to be found in animistic traditions.

Compassion, benevolence, ecological consciousness… These values, if we want to call them that, are honorable. If they were agreed upon worldwide, individual human beings might at least find the option to be “reading from the same page”. Here on SpiritualForums, I’ve sometimes expressed a longing for that

But it has to go a step beyond, and be lived by individuals, households, families. Religions have always attempted to inculcate values & principles. But they seem to have had a decreasing power, in modern times, to lead people to being living examples of these virtues. Increasingly, people have become urbanized, and along with that seems to come “getting ahead”, competitive individualism, consumerism, distractions, etc.

A perceptible consensus would be required for a new religion that people would generally ‘buy into’. So — much as I’d like a consensus — to me all progress seems to depend on the path discovered (or not) by the individual.
My contention is that individuals are not compelled to go that 'step beyond', because the religions of world do not FORCE them down that path. If you believe that failure to take those steps beyond will result in pain and suffering, you are more likely to take those steps beyond. That is why we need a new religion. Nobody's religion FORCES anyone to take the step beyond. There are too many shortcuts to salvation. If I believe that failure to act will not progress me along the path to salvation, I am more likely to take action. Universal belief in this simple, logical model will lead to a more loving society.

I tend to agree with Tanemon because world religions have got where they are by forcing followers to go down a path. They didn't get where they are by asking for volunteers. Their (controlling) power may be waning now but the values still exert influence. As an individual I comprehend the orientations Tanemon expresses. Many do but getting that step beyond incurs a big change to a society that no longer coheres and against the power of profit and the commercial, the controlling hands of businesses that are as highly protective of their interests as priests once were.

So a nice ideal but one heck of a fight. Most people don't suffer pain by not going that step beyond. Distractions abound that give them a false sense of happiness and purpose. When the distractions start to fail they feel pain all right but instead of taking that step they direct dismay and/or anger at whoever they perceive is the cause - usually the failing of governments, tightening of debt, etc.
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  #26  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:08 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylama
You say 'each to his own'. This is separatism. We are one family, but with the 'each to his own' mentality, which is currently the case, we have a lot of disharmony and war.

There is individuality in oneness, we can't all think the same otherwise we would be robots
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  #27  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:11 PM
sky sky is offline
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Originally Posted by tommylama
Buddhism does come the closest, but it falls short. Hence the need for something new and exactly to the point.

Why does it fall short ?
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  #28  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:25 PM
tommylama tommylama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John32241
Hello,

My understanding is that religions will evolve to the point where that shared Path you speak about is known and applied. When all religions are in harmony with each other, the specific beliefs will become less important.

John

Do you really believe religions are going to evolve into harmony? I don't.
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  #29  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:26 PM
tommylama tommylama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
There is individuality in oneness, we can't all think the same otherwise we would be robots

I'm guessing that angels are pretty robotic. :)
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  #30  
Old 25-11-2017, 09:36 PM
tommylama tommylama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Why does it fall short ?

It falls short because there is no emphasis for group consciousness. The quest for Nirvana is, ironically, a very self-centered path. We need to recognize that the human family is a single organism which must play an important role in the Grand Scheme. Right now, that organism is riddled with disease and disharmony. It is all well and good to tread the path to Nirvana, but I believe it is better to encourage everyone to tread the path together.
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