Our body.

[sky]

"Through examining the nature of his body and mind, he attained enlightenment—complete awakening"

Buddha never considered that the body and mind are separate, he taught that they are interconnected and inseparable.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Sure all is great when the body and mind are healthy but for some they are not and many times it is not related to anything they did or didn't do.
I volunteered at a wildlife rehab because I cared and because I wanted to honor these animals, then I got Lyme disease and then it took doctors too long to figure out what was wrong with me. Speaking from experience, yes indeed an unhealthy body and mind are road blocks and I pray for those suffering as such.
I will add though that this disease pushed me to learn about Traditional Chinese Medicine and consequently a life now that while I still suffer at times, a much healthier and better life. A life where i don't so much identify with my mind and body. A life where I observe them as precious gifts and tools.
May all beings find balance and good health.....

We are interconnected mind/body/spirit in all ways even when we don't know why things happen to the body. Sometimes we learn why, sometimes we just deal with the physical fallout, not really needing to know why.You can investigate the totality of your mind body as deep as you wish too, if you have the capacity to do so.. Find answers and go further if it serves you to heal or find balance with what is that your dealing with. Humans adjust as they choose and see they can.

I have heard you share that story before about your Lymes disease before. Their are stories deep in our cellular memories, I can hear stories in peoples organs, bones and tissues if I listen to them. It is amazing what your body will share if you listen. I am gifted to listen to the mind/body connection, some are not, I share my gifts where I can.

I hang out with some pretty aware souls who are fairly in tune with the nature of all spiritual matters, I notice though that the body connection is not at the forefront of their mind body awareness, which surprises me. If your aware of the interconnected nature of life and you as life in this way, wouldn't it just be natural to the whole awareness? I guess for some aware people it is not..

So when you say it is unrelated to anything they did or didn't do, it can be related to many things related to them they don't know and are not aware are connected because they are not able too listen, do not have the capacity to understand, do not investigate deeper, so they use what they can to find balance with what is as best as they can..

Identifying with the body can be a great catalyst to balanced being of mind/body..
When you understand something, you don't have to be attached just more consciously aware of yourself more complete, to live more balanced and healthy.
Take care of yourself as a totality of mind/body awareness.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

And then it (the body) will die !! lol there is no getting away from it baby !!!

I prefer to focus on living and doing what I can with what I have, while I am able Joe. hehe (death is an inevitable part of life, but while life calls, I choose life :) )

Life is a transient changing process, we are part of that process so death and aging, changing process is all part of listening and going with what is.

I look at one of my h's friends who has 36 stents in his body, he has had various other issues with cancer, and problems with drainage in his head, open heart surgery, numerous other problems..

He still smokes and eats as per how he always has..I often wonder about that.
I stir him sometimes, try to shake things in him to see differently, but in my observations of him, I see that for him the medical system keeps him balanced, keeps him alive and he continues to use it to compensate now for all the problems he has...Others might choose another path to find balance. I know I certainly would knowing I can...

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I think this sums it up and it even adds value to my post after the fact:

"Everything can be sadhana. The way you eat, the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you breathe, the way you conduct your body, mind and your energies and emotions – this is sadhana. Sadhana does not mean any specific kind of activity, sadhana means you are using everything as a tool for your wellbeing"

Exactly, it sums up my response to you as well. The holistic nature of mind body awareness can be as deep as you choose and notice. It is choice if your open and see you can be more than your body, inclusive of your body, or totally in disregard of your body. In the end you work with what you have and can..

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I prefer to focus on living and doing what I can with what I have, while I am able Joe. hehe (death is an inevitable part of life, but while life calls, I choose life :) )

Life is a transient changing process, we are part of that process so death and aging, changing process is all part of listening and going with what is.

I look at one of my h's friends who has 36 stents in his body, he has had various other issues with cancer, and problems with drainage in his head, open heart surgery, numerous other problems..

He still smokes and eats as per how he always has..I often wonder about that.
I stir him sometimes, try to shake things in him to see differently, but in my observations of him, I see that for him the medical system keeps him balanced, keeps him alive and he continues to use it to compensate now for all the problems he has...Others might choose another path to find balance. I know I certainly would knowing I can...

Yes health seems to come to some people easier than others. It's a shame what some people put their bodies through in terms of poisoning the body with foods and substances. But on the other side of that equation i'm sure there are people who do all the perfect healthy things they should do to maintain a healthy body but its more than this isn't it ? In their case it's a kind of addiction too and a placement upon the body to be something it will never be ? So i suppose they are as equally addicted and out of whack with their bodies as the man who is an alcoholic right now. So perhaps there is a middle way in the regards of maintaining a healthy body. And also I have heard one non duality teacher speaking about his body or 'the body' as a toyota or a ford not some super car that leads the indie 5000 everyday of the week
Or as an urban renewal project that one is constantly trying to maintain or get something from which it is incapable of giving according to him at least. The idea that there is a spiritual body has been floating around in my head while writing this too A complete whole and perfect body which kinda coincides with Michael Angelo's idea that his sculptures were already perfectly formed within side the block of stone and he was just knocking away the casing. Ok thanks.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Yes health seems to come to some people easier than others. It's a shame what some people put their bodies through in terms of poisoning the body with foods and substances. But on the other side of that equation i'm sure there are people who do all the perfect healthy things they should do to maintain a healthy body but its more than this isn't it ? In their case it's a kind of addiction too and a placement upon the body to be something it will never be ? So i suppose they are as equally addicted and out of whack with their bodies as the man who is an alcoholic right now. So perhaps there is a middle way in the regards of maintaining a healthy body. And also I have heard one non duality teacher speaking about his body or 'the body' as a toyota or a ford not some super car that leads the indie 5000 everyday of the week

True it can come easy to some and not others. There is still that wonder of the greater mystery in life so even as we do and be in this body, nothing is set in stone and certain. One can only move as they can and move differently as things move and change to notice. Addiction works in all ways of being I would imagine, so extreme will show its face one way or another I guess. I like the non dual teachers view. Keep it simple and balanced tends to work best. I can ignore imbalance in myself on most levels so everything screams inside me to get me to notice one way or another. I only got myself to listen to that screaming match..hehe

Or as an urban renewal project that one is constantly trying to maintain or get something from which it is incapable of giving according to him at least. The idea that there is a spiritual body has been floating around in my head while writing this too A complete whole and perfect body which kinda coincides with Michael Angelo's idea that his sculptures were already perfectly formed within side the block of stone and he was just knocking away the casing. Ok thanks.

Spiritual body works, but then it doesn't do the bush walking, or drive the car, or even chop the wood if you need wood. The spiritual body might serves those actions as one, but the physical is what allows for us to experience more directly this earthly existence. Well sculpting works for the human vessel as well. You could see yourself as the block of stone and carve yourself into the potential of yourself by using the many tools available to do so....

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

True it can come easy to some and not others. There is still that wonder of the greater mystery in life so even as we do and be in this body, nothing is set in stone and certain. One can only move as they can and move differently as things move and change to notice. Addiction works in all ways of being I would imagine, so extreme will show its face one way or another I guess. I like the non dual teachers view. Keep it simple and balanced tends to work best. I can ignore imbalance in myself on most levels so everything screams inside me to get me to notice one way or another. I only got myself to listen to that screaming match..hehe


Spiritual body works, but then it doesn't do the bush walking, or drive the car, or even chop the wood if you need wood. The spiritual body might serves those actions as one, but the physical is what allows for us to experience more directly this earthly existence. Well sculpting works for the human vessel as well. You could see yourself as the block of stone and carve yourself into the potential of yourself by using the many tools available to do so....

No but the idea of perfection is a reality all of its own ..a pure reality and it takes care of the emotional and spiritual navigations that are needed to carve up life, when the fire wood stops talking to you and the bush walk ends in the same place that you began. When you become tired of the money that you never had and are never going to get then the Spirit is the greatest of comforters and shows you othersides to the nasty equations ..but its all do able i suppose ..and hopefully materially i will be more and more comforted as you will hopefully ?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I think this sums it up and it even adds value to my post after the fact:

"Everything can be sadhana. The way you eat, the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you breathe, the way you conduct your body, mind and your energies and emotions – this is sadhana. Sadhana does not mean any specific kind of activity, sadhana means you are using everything as a tool for your wellbeing"

That I can GROK with (but I don't know what GROK means)

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

That's ok. If the facts and truth of the "who said what, what is the truth of what Buddha might relate to in that quote"are important to you, then you will can present that truth. Do you have any thing to add to the conversation that you see yourself in regards to your own body as the vehicle that can be treated with great care as part of awakening?

Hi naturesflow, yes, I think that to understand the Buddha's words, it's very important to quote him correctly (as far as possible). I think about the body quite often, but unfortunately I don't have any concrete ideas to share, except that I see it as a sign of maturity when one is able to take good care of the body (so I also try to become a bit more mature in this respect, but I still have basic lessons to learn, such as not eating as fast as I normally do)

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by sky123

More important than just pointing out that it is a fake quote, do you understand yourself why it is fake ?

What immediately strikes the eye is the phrasing "our body". In the Pali canon the Buddha consistently speaks of "the body". I assume that this more neutral term is less likely to induce a mistaken concept of "self".