What exactly is meditation?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

I prefer oral talks over reading as I don't need to observe, I just close my eyes and let the words flow through me...

Well... observation is 'already there'... so there's no need to do anything in that regard.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well... observation is 'already there'... so there's no need to do anything in that regard.

Yes, but I meant using my eye's
It's a strange trait I have, I don't always look at the TV, I sit and listen or stare at the wall and listen...

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes, but I meant using my eye's
It's a strange trait I have, I don't always look at the TV, I sit and listen or stare at the wall and listen...

Aversion for one of the sense bases??

[sky]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Aversion for one of the sense bases??

Gosh aversion for my sight, not at all, it's precious but I don't feel the need to use it all the time

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Yes, but I meant using my eye's
It's a strange trait I have, I don't always look at the TV, I sit and listen or stare at the wall and listen...

I'm not a big reader either, and I'm not really into that whole knowledge game. That's why I don't quote 'important people' to try to convince people that I'm right. All that is said as truth is subject to critique anyway, because it is to discern, have self-determination, and never take to be true anything which isn't directly realised.

[Imzadi]

Wow, thank you everyone for the information! It will be a while before I can go through everything. I like the idea of having a formal and disciplined structured meditation practice with proper sitting technique and observational protocol.

To be honest, I normally just sit there, lay there, lean there, etc. and I call it meditation. I guess the experience is simply like being present with Presence. I think quite often we fixate and cling to many things whether it is material objects, mental objects, emotional objects, etc. Being present is kinda like hanging out with the Presence that is beyond any objects. There is also a sort of extreme and sharp clarity that arise. It's something akin to looking into a clear and pristine mountain spring.

I appreciate the scriptural Buddhist information to reference to, but I am curious to see how you each would describe the experience in your own words if possible. I think that would help my understanding to see how each of you relate what I called Presence in your own unique way. :)

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

Wow, thank you everyone for the information! It will be a while before I can go through everything. I like the idea of having a formal and disciplined structured meditation practice with proper sitting technique and observational protocol.

To be honest, I normally just sit there, lay there, lean there, etc. and I call it meditation. I guess the experience is simply like being present with Presence. I think quite often we fixate and cling to many things whether it is material objects, mental objects, emotional objects, etc. Being present is kinda like hanging out with the Presence that is beyond any objects. There is also a sort of extreme and sharp clarity that arise. It's something akin to looking into a clear and pristine mountain spring.

I appreciate the scriptural Buddhist information to reference to, but I am curious to see how you each would describe the experience in your own words if possible. I think that would help my understanding to see how each of you relate what I called Presence in your own unique way. :)

In the sutta things are broken up into categories, but in the practice its all merged. Even so, the practice is done in stages, starting with the breath. That part of the meditation is called anapana sati (breath awareness ), and most people say it is an object to focus and hold attention on, but it is more than that, because the real art isn't to hold attention there, but rather, try to feel the subtlest details of the breathing sensation as one possibly can.

The thing with the subtle aspect of sensation is it changes very fast and it occupies a small area, so the idea is pay attention to any breathing sensation one can feel in the nostrils and/or below the nose - and just feel it. Over time, like over a month perhaps, one reduces the surface area felt to a small spot under the nose and tries to feel for the subtlest details within that small spot.

In my practice I reduced the area to a small dot on the tip of my upper lip at the centre of the cleft there, and am able to clearly detect even the slightest movement of the lightest breath passing over that spot. Even within that spot, I can feel a lot of detail of subtler sensations. For example, I can move the attention from one side of the upper lip cleft slowly along till I reach the other side if it, so the surface area I feel is about the size of a pin head. Even in that tiny area I can feel the myriad of smaller sensations as the breath blows over coming in and going out.

The reason is, not the ability to hold attention on an object of focus, but to hone the mind's sensitivity of perception so that it can perceive the subtle aspect of body sensation... that's basically the practical side of it, but for those who sit in this sort of practice there is quite an array of effects, but here we aren't actually practicing, so people wouldn't relate to the more nuanced psycho/emotional processes that are involved.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not a big reader either, and I'm not really into that whole knowledge game. That's why I don't quote 'important people' to try to convince people that I'm right. All that is said as truth is subject to critique anyway, because it is to discern, have self-determination, and never take to be true anything which isn't directly realised.

Yes, much better to haul your resentments everywhere else (passively aggressively of course)

What's really interesting is that the Buddha didn't lay anything in an incorrect way - so it's fair and accurate as a standard - for a practicing Buddhist. It doesn't mean believe, but it sure as hell doesn't mean disbelieve. Just because you haven't reached the same wavelength, it might be more accurate to say "perhaps" then use yourself as the standard of success or definition IMO.
"Important people" (e.g. the Buddha) are useful to reference in any honest and objective discussion/understanding as they have seen much farther than you so when you want to climb a mountain, why ask the person who is only on second base.

BT

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Imzadi

What exactly is the process and experience of meditation? Can you please describe it? What are some of the ways you meditate? How is meditation described in Buddhist scripture? Thank you! :)

Hi Imzadi

Different schools in Buddhism will have different ways and methods and instructions to guide Buddhist students. Depends on inclination and leaning

For example, in Zen Buddhism, the primary method of practice is called zazen - it is supplemented by koan practice or can be "just sitting" shikantaza.

The Zen method is often called the direct way to Buddhahood - but it can be harder for some as there are no handholds to guide students up the mountain. It's an interesting boat.

The Zen school focuses on sutras such as the Diamond Sutta, Heart Sutra is paramount, and there are the Four Bodhisattva Vows which guide the intentions and objectives of a Zen practitioner.

Meditation in this school is zazen - for beginners, it typically utilizes the same method as Theravadan schools i.e. cultivating some base samadhi which involves focus on the breath. One base samadhi is attained, students learn to "just sit" and/or undertake koan practice.

Koans are not intellectual questions - they are answered with full mind body realization and are also a form of meditative practice.

Zen is famous for sitting, walking, talking is meditation - at the end and middle there is no delineation although formal (sitting/walking) practice is typically always required.

Theravadan schools focus on the Anapanasatti Sutra and others to start with. This cultivates "right mindfulness" (one of the pillars of the Eightfold Path). Typically samadhi is much more heavily emphasized in most Theravadan traditions and often students will get carried away with jhanas and the like. A more straight forward, pragmatic and experience based practice is borne from the Thai Forest Theravadan teachers, who were ascetics in Thailand (and now distributed through Western countries because of Western disciples that practiced with Thai Masters). I am quite partial to their guidance. You will find them under Access to Insight, and many of the Thai Forest Ajahns give detailed advice on meditation.

This can include breath meditation (focus), it can include focusing on a word (Buddho) and it can include general awareness meditation.

Traditional Theravadan schools also do have focus of course on vipassana. Samadhi is considered concentration and vipassana is insight. It's akin to a flashlight. If you want to unravel the darkness or cobwebs, you first need some stability in holding the light (samadhi) and insight/vipassana is what reveals/clarifies what is there.

Some Theravadan practices also often entail examination e.g. examine the body (in order to discourage attachment to body) etc.

Tibetan schools have different traditions. One of these is called Dzogchen and is probably fairly similar to Zen in realization but Tibetan Buddhism often has different cultural elements e.g. Gurus, and Deity practices amongst others. There are some very learned and excellent Tibetan teachers today in existence but as always, it's YMMV as to whether one can encounter (and identify) these living jewels.

Tibetan schools also have meditation practices such as Tonglen - which is to take in suffering of others, and transform this out through one's own meditation. As in all Mahayana schools of Buddhism, compassion and service are fundamental to its lifeblood and in this way, the enlightenment is often much deeper and clearer. Pema Chodren is an accessible Western teacher in the Tibetan school and happy soul previously quoted Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche in one of his posts on this forum.

Finally - in Buddhist scriptures, meditation is covered in diverse and remarkable ways.

At the most basic and evident level, you have the Anapanasati Sutra, which outlines Buddha's instructions on breath meditation. You will also find discourses from the Buddha on the Four Noble Truths, where right mindfulness/right meditation is discussed.

In other Sutras you find the meditation embedded. For example the Heart Sutra speaks to the insight/revelations of Sariputra which speaks to the deep inner enlightenment of the many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. It is instrumental in revealing the depth and revelation of Buddhist meditation - in a way, it is a guide to what can be revealed.

"no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body or mind"

etc.

Diamond Sutra gives many handy hints and references on how to meditate, but these are also often embedded as opposed to more prominently featured. As an example, the Buddha states

"Moreover, Subhåti, as to dharmas, a Bodhisattva should not dwell anywhere when he gives. He should not dwell in forms when he gives, nor should he dwell in sounds, smells, tastes, tangible objects, or dharmas when he gives.
Subhåti, a Bodhisattva should give thus: he should not dwell in marks. And why? If a Bodhisattva does not dwell in marks when he gives, his blessings and virtues are immeasurable."

Imzadi, what seems esoteric and far fetched at first clarifies itself through one thing and one thing only - your very good practice. As you practice, the meanings are laid bare for you to see and revel in and appreciate.

Hope this helps a little

BT

PS I have written this hurriedly so hope that it will suffice and is reasonably accurate - I will proof read at another point. Take care

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Imzadi, what seems esoteric and far fetched at first clarifies itself through one thing and one thing only - your very good practice. As you practice, the meanings are laid bare for you to see and revel in and appreciate.

Hope this helps a little

BT

This!!

If you look and listen around many people will have a different idea of what meditation is supposed to be. The only way to come to grips with all those views is pick one technique and stick with it for a longer time.
Without a doubt in my mind. doubt will arise where you will question your technique and wonder if another technique will yield faster results.. That's ok. keep doubting and stick with your technique.

A widespread and revered techniques is Vipassana.
Another one that has come up the last few years, But no less effective or thorough is Culadesa's technique described in a book the mind illuminated. Many people found this a helpful technique as well as framework to keep in mind.
If you want I can send you a pdf copy.

Pure samatha techniques striving for Jhana attainments require a serious amount of time(6 to 8 hours a day) and may be less usefull in most peoples lives.

I wrote my walking and sitting practise in another thread recently.
Will try to find it and copy paste it below,

Of to bring the kids to school now..

With Love
Eelco