what is bliss?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I think "pain and sacrifice" are part and parcel of being empatheticallyengaged and personally involved with Life 'in' the world. "In this world ye shall have tribulation." It takes 'guts' (which feel 'pain' and the suffering of 'sacrifice') to consciously/deliberately elect/choose to be so involved and engaged, I think. I am personally 'glad' that you, Kristi, are one who chooses to stay 'in' it (to have 'wins' -- "you have to be in it, to win it" :) -- though you inevitably also 'lose' what you would rather not in the process) instead of live 'in' 'out of your (present) mind' "bliss".

Others may of course conceptualize and analogize it differently, but the way I 'see' it, the experience of "bliss" is like having an out-of-one's-mind-ecstatic 'orgasm'. A person who 'boasts' of having gotten to or 'advocates' getting to the point of being 'in' "bliss" all the time or most of the time or a lot of the time strikes me as being similar to a person who boasts, advocates, etc. having frequent/multiple orgasms every day!

In my frame of references, it is in the arena of verbal and and physical 'foreplay' and 'lovemaking' wherein one consciously (by way of staying 'in' one's mind and relating to others while they are 'in' theirs) engages in interaction with others that the real 'reason' and 'payoff' ('benefit'?) of incarnation lies.

I think the 'siddhis' (deployments of 'psychic'ally generated 'powers') may be 'seductive' distractions away from engaging in such fashion, and thereby actually 'defeat' the purpose (one's purpose) in/for incarnating. I therefore 'look' at 'practitioners' and 'purveyors' of what's called 'energy work' with a 'suspicious' I. Not that I think the occasional utilization of 'psychic' power, assuming one is able to do so or that it spontaneously manifests, for immediate pleasure or benefit is a 'bad' idea, mind you. 'Orgasms' may be both 'thrilling' (enthusiasm generating) and 'wonderful' reminders/rehearters of the absolutely transcendental gloriousness of the 'phenomenon' (the Reality) of Life!

Interesting to read this through.

Your humour is appreciated throughout the read, I should add. :)

In the process of one's own uniqueness and piece here on earth, (without thoughts of siding going on in me) I wonder for those who work more empathically, or through the feeling mode of processing the world, whether it can be a more intense walk through the pain and suffering more directly simply because they don't have an awareness/ability (until one does)to be and do differently. When I look at myself through the process of my own suppressed feelings of love and joy, fear and suffering (conditioned responses)dominated my process. So for me it was a long drawn out process of walking through every aspect of those fears to build balance slowly and surely to find my inner well of "aliveness and joy of being".

I recal reaching a point within my process that actually showed me that I feared to feel love and joy, that is how deep my pain body was in me. I had to walk through to reach that point. In the turnaround where I slowly moved from pain body to reaching within myself to find my own love and joy, I slowly but surely ended the war on terror and fear in me, as the new awareness allowed me to build the new me slowly and surely as a more opened balanced state of being. Of course when I look into the old paradigm of myself, I see that most often every step required me to let go as deep in myself to the attachment assigned to each step. As I moved more into love and joy, I realized that they too could easily be grasped with attachment simply because they feel "good", they feel "desirable" so the process to become more conscious to open to more and not attach was paramount to clear out all attachment's that sneak in to show you where you hold on and not be fully open in yourself to let the fullness of life enter into your being, more free flowing and not contained in any way.

So that is me.

When I look into the use of bliss to burn up old energy and awaken new energy, I see it serves a purpose in this way, to build balance this way, its a tool of awakening, to assist the process one is undergoing on all sides within self that are yet to be melded in union. This I see is one aspect of bliss and its use. (the other thing I am aware of is that many predominate thinkers become overwhelmed with emotions more so than an empathic predominate feeler type who sees it more as their natural process to go deep and get clear and balanced) So with this in mind, the tool of bliss becomes the gift of the mind to support the process to find balance within itself.

IF bliss then is a natural supportive part of the process for those engaged in it as we see on here ( I am most certain most are predominate thinkers or lead with their thinking process more so, so it makes sense that it shines through those in this way :)) then we see that it benefits them to not be walking through things more directly like (we/me) the empathic/predominate feeler does, because quite frankly it would in fact do their head in. (quite literally) And when a thinker's head has been done in, what transpires is a "shut down" occurrence. Emotional overwhelm will basically turn the off switch off in them and they shut down. So the key to bliss is that it becomes like a sneaky tool to keep them open and keep on going, because quite frankly the mind cant support itself alone in this process as you and I know.

Now moving on from process (does it ever end? ). Well process where by your open and flowing not attaching, but more connecting and aware of the process without being immersed in it, I wonder how bliss serves people at this point? My suspicious side, ooops I mean my curious side actually believes that those who move from process into the higher state of bliss as a saturation on itself, actually have reached their own saturation point, so they either stay there locked into that state and find a home that matches it, or they come back down to reality and begin the process of seeing how to live a life open and more balanced within, where all that process falls away. Now the key will be, are they attached to any of that process and to bliss? If they are it could well be a heavy landing. Open state is scary without tools to assist, open mind, open in all ways of yourself, without any source other than life itself and yourself, well it can be a tricky call for some, especially when their tools have been a huge part of their own process. What now they might ask? Or they may not...Because ultimately we can learn how both the higher faculties and our lower faculties (not that I believe in higher or lower) can be unified as one source and everything you were, have been, experienced becomes a unified neat little system of you, created by you as your own unique storehouse within.

Moving onto connection and sourcing spaces to move the realization into a deeper act of service, seems to be a natural circle of itself, so ultimately the bliss will serve something beyond itself in the nature of one being themselves through this process, what is in creation and being made is creation being served to the world as you..:)

[Emm]

Originally Posted by Kristi

My guides were straight with me. If I want the bliss feelings I have to deal with the pain and sacrifice of letting go of all my old ways. It can only be done in seclusion and by throwing everything and everyone away.

A gift of angelic healing and occasional feelings of bliss is what I would get in exchange for my sacrifices. Just not worth it lol.

I’d rather hold on to my dear ones, my family, my love, my friends, real experiences, tangible sensations. If anything my connection to Spirit in this lifetime has enabled me to appreciate what I have.

Perhaps that in itself is a type of bliss. :)

I'd like to explain a little about the part I've put in bold from my experience Kristi. I learned that you don't throw away those you love...you throw away the attachment to the idea of how you should love them. For example we label relationships as lovers, spouses, siblings, parents etc and with each label there is an expectation of how we should behave and love those as well as what we expect from them in return.

For instance you would behave differently as a child to a parent than you would with a sibling. When for some reason one of you behaves in a way that differs from the expectation it causes disturbance. If you took the labels away and just saw each person as a being in their own right and not an expectation then the energy between you is healthier and flows more freely.

As a child my divorced mother naturally when asked out would dress to attract the opposite sex as she was in a new relationship, she was only in her 30's so it was reasonable to assume she didn't want to live for the rest of her life alone...however, I couldn't see this, in my view she should dress as a mother and act accordingly, respectfully. I have to laugh at this now but it must have distressed my mother that she couldn't juggle between the two in my eyes.

I believe its the letting go of attachment to the labels we give to each relationship your guides may have been alluding to...not to give up all your loved ones. The mind gets in the way, like a wall of resistance when it comes to free flowing energy. Awareness of how we think and feel clues us to where our attachments are, this can only be done by you (in seclusion).

I'm not saying you will be in continual bliss but it does help to ease the pendulum swings of emotion that generally go with relationships. Love has a better chance of sustaining the relationship...sometimes we get it mixed up thinking if we feel pain it must be cos we love them, not so, its only the belief of what we or they expect that causes the pain.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by running

if you knew me you wouldnt be saying such things. you are right in that for many it can happen through tremendous pain. such as my case. but thats not always how it goes. for some its not like going through hell to get to it.

and again. nothing is left behind. its not a product of the mind or emotioanl body. tbey live on along side bliss. which is from source.

its going to take a great deal of boasting and many doing it for people to know the reality of the experience.

I 'hear', to the degree I am capable of doing so, what you say and how you think (based on your experience), running. It all makes sense to me, except the part about "if" I knew you, I wouldn't be thinking and saying the things that I do. First off, I cannot possibly know you as you know yourself. I can only know and relate to my impressions of you, which necessarily are a function of my 'own' projections (albeit these are 'stimulated' by what you express). Secondly, the things that I said weren't only in response to what you have said pertaining to "bliss". They were in response to everything everyone has said relating to the subject in this thread as well as being a synthesis of what I have been thinking about the subject in relation to what I have read in both Eastern and Western scriptural sources, as well as other writings such as the poem by Oriah which I quoted, all of which I have contemplated and cogitated for many years now. I hope you get a better sense of why I think and say what I think and say in light of my personally saying this to you.

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I 'hear', to the degree I am capable of doing so, what you say and how you think (based on your experience), running. It all makes sense to me, except the part about "if" I knew you, I wouldn't be thinking and saying the things that I do. First off, I cannot possibly know you as you know yourself. I can only know and relate to my impressions of you, which necessarily are a function of my 'own' projections (albeit these are 'stimulated' by what you express). Secondly, the things that I said weren't only in response to what you have said pertaining to "bliss". They were in response to everything everyone has said relating to the subject in this thread as well as being a synthesis of what I have been thinking about the subject in relation to what I have read in both Eastern and Western scriptural sources, as well as other writings such as the poem by Oriah which I quoted, all of which I have contemplated and cogitated for many years now. I hope you get a better sense of why I think and say what I think and say in light of my personally saying this to you.

its the unfounded accusations. those were some whoppers you came up with. if you had read the thread, you would clearly see nowhere does it say you no longer have a mind and emotions. nowhere does it say life no longer goes on. nowhere does it say life is avoided. if anything everything is done in far less fear. making life more of an adventure with less worries and so on.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by running

its the unfounded accusations. those were some whoppers you came up with. if you had read the thread, you would clearly see nowhere does it say you no longer have a mind and emotions. nowhere does it say life no longer goes on. nowhere does it say life is avoided.

'Unfounded' in your opinion/judgment, yes.

I often draw conclusions from the (relative degree of) the absence of 'sayings', i.e. acknowledgements and engagements, relating to subjects mentioned by others, as well as distortions pertaining thereto.

Originally Posted by running

if anything everything is done in far less fear. making life more of an adventure with less worries and so on.

I have both experienced that myself and 'see' that that is the case with others. This is not something I am 'arguing' with. What I am saying is that there is much more to Life than that, which may be ignored ('avoided'?) if that bliss-result is the be all and end all of one's philosophy because one then becomes completely 'content' (happy? blissful?) to be and repeatedly just do so in one's 'corner' of the universe instead of considerately taking into account the possible relevance of and therefore genuinely relating to the substance of the things mentioned in Oriah's poems or posts made by the likes of natureflow, kristi, emm, and others (sorry, these are just the ones came to mind right now) which share perspectives pertaining to what Life and Life's purose looks and feels like from other 'loci' of Being.

[davidsun]

P.S. to running: what appears to be 'accusations' to you appear to just be intelligent 'observations' to me, albeit they admittedly don't concur (i.e. they disagree with) the 'view' you articulate and so (implicitly) characterize you as presenting partial (selfishly biased?) truth - just as your counter statements (implicitly) characterize mine as being.

A piece of writing I did many years ago may shed some light on what [u]is[/i], or at least could (IMO) be, going on here: "Think about it: LIFE depends on there being an ever-evolving diversity of different and, therefore, in one or another way competing, sets of feelings and perceptions regarding what is and isn’t essential. If everything was absolutely consonant, there would be no progression in terms of learning and development, these being a function of the creative exercise of Intelligence and the intelligent exercise of Creativity. Existence, for it could not even be called Life in such case, would just be a round of the same set of symphonic notes endlessly repeating, because everything would then simply operate like clockwork."

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

'Unfounded' in your opinion/judgment, yes.

I often draw conclusions from the (relative degree of) the absence of 'sayings', i.e. acknowledgements and engagements, relating to subjects mentioned by others, as well as distortions pertaining thereto.


I have both experienced that myself and 'see' that that is the case with others. This is not something I am 'arguing' with. What I am saying is that there is much more to Life than that, which may be ignored ('avoided'?) if that bliss-result is the be all and end all of one's philosophy because one then becomes completely 'content' (happy? blissful?) to be and repeatedly just do so in one's 'corner' of the universe instead of considerately taking into account the possible relevance of and therefore genuinely relating to the substance of the things mentioned in Oriah's poems or posts made by the likes of natureflow, kristi, emm, and others (sorry, these are just the ones came to mind right now) which share perspectives pertaining to what Life and Life's purose looks and feels like from other 'loci' of Being.

the title of the thread is what is bliss? the content of the thread is in the context of the title. for example if i started a thread about classic cars. and the content reflected the title. would you really assume those making comments about classic cars had only the knowledge and experience of that? of course not. people make subject titles to point in the direction of what the content should be.

you are. using ridiculious tactics to make reason for your unfounded accusations.

again. the emotional body and mind remain. everything your implying is completely baseless. emotions remain. so obviously they matter. the mind remains. so obviously it matters.

bliss is like breathing. like a heart beating. once it has become ones being. its not something you have to think about or have a strategy for. your perhaps confusing the process with the end result. for example in training for anything one becomes consumed by that. after one has become trained. no longer consumed. such as pointed out by barrnu. once acclimated it becomes normal.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

True Nature Illuminates Itself and Liberates Itself by Revealing Itself

When we understand the discerning capacity of true nature, we come to see that it teaches not only as revelation but as self-revelation. It illuminates itself and liberates itself by revealing itself. In its operation, this penetrating intelligence teaches us the capacity to learn. But as it teaches, it learns. As it reveals, it realizes. As it illuminates, it is enlightened. As it transforms, it evolves. We see that true nature is behind the whole process of learning, unveiling, and transformation. True nature awakens itself by guiding itself as the individual consciousness that appears to be inquiring. In reality, the inquiry of the individual is nothing but the way that true nature is revealing itself. It is Total Being functioning as the student eager to learn and as the teacher, outer or inner, skillfully guiding the student. This is the picture that we see when the discriminating intelligence synthesizes the role of the individual practicing and the action of true nature. It is a picture that emerges when this intelligence utilizes both dual and nondual perceptions in the same insight. This understanding is one of its awakenings: The inner teacher learns in the form of teaching an other which is a form of itself.


The Alchemy of Freedom, p. 126

Funny coincidence just this morning I had a conversation with myself driving into work which ended with something like the one thing I really do know is that the nature that reveals itself in me as loving, caring and selfless is my true nature. I really know nothing else so this true nature has nothing to relate to. It is truly a reflection of what I am.
The thing about the article that stands out is that it refers to this true nature as an "it".
In my morning conversation I could not come to any knowable conclusion such that I am an individual soul whose nature is such. I could not proclaim that this nature I notice will live on after I die as me. I could not refer to it as an it lol
"It" seems inevitable that all such questions are doomed to be forever unanswered but the cool thing is, I'm content with just being myself and I'm in awe that what I am at the core is a beautiful thing. In awe because it's a mystery.
Anyways thanks for sharing that quote.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by running

the title of the thread is what is bliss? the content of the thread is in the context of the title. for example if i started a thread about classic cars. and the content reflected the title. would you really assume those making comments about classic cars had only the knowledge and experience of that? of course not. people make subject titles to point in the direction of what the content should be.

you are. using ridiculious tactics to make reason for your unfounded accusations.

again. the emotional body and mind remain. everything your implying is completely baseless. emotions remain. so obviously they matter. the mind remains. so obviously it matters.

bliss is like breathing. like a heart beating. once it has become ones being. its not something you have to think about or have a strategy for. your perhaps confusing the process with the end result. for example in training for anything one becomes consumed by that. after one has become trained. no longer consumed. such as pointed out by barrnu. once acclimated it becomes normal.

Yes to all that you say here, except to your 'dismissal' of everything I am saying as the 'baseless' use of "ridiculious tactics to make reason for your unfounded accusations". 'I' (or at least something in 'me' which stems from 'my' experience ) AM the 'base' from which said saying(s) 'arise'. Not that I think you really understand my true meanings, mind you. At least, I imagine you wouldn't 'simply' dismiss them as 'baseless' or "ridiculous" or "unfounded" or "accusations" if you did.

Hang loose (if you can), adventure-running.

I am relating to the title of this thread (i.e. the 'meaning' of "bliss") and to thangs which are organically related to said subject, IMO, which I hope you will someday be able to grant 'validity' to simply because it comes from/through another aspect of 'Source' ... another someone, just as you are someome.

From The Bhagavad Gita:

"Constant yearning for the knowledge of Self, and pondering over the lessons of the great Truth – this is Wisdom, all else ignorance.
I will speak to thee now of that great Truth which man ought to know, since by its means he will win immortal {everlasting?} bliss :) – that which is without beginning, the Eternal Spirit which dwells in Me, neither with form, nor yet without it.
Everywhere are Its hands and Its feet; everywhere It has eyes that see, heads that think and mouths that speak; everywhere It listens; It dwells in all the worlds; It envelops them all.
Beyond the senses, It yet shines through every sense perception. Bound to nothing, It yet sustains everything. Unaffected by the Qualities, It still enjoys them all.
It is within all beings, yet outside; motionless yet moving; too subtle to be perceived; far away yet always near.
In all beings undivided, yet living in division, It is the upholder of all, Creator and Destroyer alike;
It is the Light of lights, beyond the reach of darkness; the Wisdom, the only thing that is worth knowing or that wisdom can teach; the Presence in the hearts of all."

[running]

[QUOTE


From The Bhagavad Gita:

"Constant yearning for the knowledge of Self, and pondering over the lessons of the great Truth – this is Wisdom, all else ignorance.
I will speak to thee now of that great Truth which man ought to know, since by its means he will win immortal {everlasting?} bliss :) – that which is without beginning, the Eternal Spirit which dwells in Me, neither with form, nor yet without it.
Everywhere are Its hands and Its feet; everywhere It has eyes that see, heads that think and mouths that speak; everywhere It listens; It dwells in all the worlds; It envelops them all.
Beyond the senses, It yet shines through every sense perception. Bound to nothing, It yet sustains everything. Unaffected by the Qualities, It still enjoys them all.
It is within all beings, yet outside; motionless yet moving; too subtle to be perceived; far away yet always near.
In all beings undivided, yet living in division, It is the upholder of all, Creator and Destroyer alike;
It is the Light of lights, beyond the reach of darkness; the Wisdom, the only thing that is worth knowing or that wisdom can teach; the Presence in the hearts of all."[/quote]


yep........... very well said from the gita.