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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #1281  
Old 19-04-2019, 03:05 AM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I think he described the psychology of the retreat very well, straight from his own experience.

And what happens when there are no more thoughts and complaints that arise?

Ajahn Amaro is talking to help retreat-ants - relate to where they are etc. All teachers have been where they have been, that is why a guide is useful for many.

JL
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  #1282  
Old 19-04-2019, 05:26 AM
sky sky is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
So when contemplating anatta, It should be done with the middle path in mind.Is this how you would consider or contemplate anatta (not self)?


Yes I would always try to follow the Middle Way in everything.

Although Buddha taught Not Self he also taught that a healthy sense of self leads to long term welfare and happiness.


"Your own self is your own mainstay,
for who else could your mainstay be?
With you yourself well-trained,
you obtain a mainstay hard to obtain."
Dhp 160


"Evil is done by oneself.
By oneself is one defiled.
Evil is left undone by oneself.
By oneself is one cleansed.

Purity and impurity are one's own doing.
No one purifies another.
No other purifies one.
DHL 165

"You yourself should reprove yourself,
should examine yourself.
As a self-guarded monk with guarded self,
mindful you dwell at ease.
Dhp 379

I think these passages show that a sense of self is an important part of practice.

JL mentioned the 5 skandhas, have you read about them? You might find something of interest in them....
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  #1283  
Old 19-04-2019, 02:40 PM
ImthatIm
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Yes I would always try to follow the Middle Way in everything.

Although Buddha taught Not Self he also taught that a healthy sense of self leads to long term welfare and happiness.


"Your own self is your own mainstay,
for who else could your mainstay be?
With you yourself well-trained,
you obtain a mainstay hard to obtain."
Dhp 160


"Evil is done by oneself.
By oneself is one defiled.
Evil is left undone by oneself.
By oneself is one cleansed.

Purity and impurity are one's own doing.
No one purifies another.
No other purifies one.
DHL 165

"You yourself should reprove yourself,
should examine yourself.
As a self-guarded monk with guarded self,
mindful you dwell at ease.
Dhp 379

I think these passages show that a sense of self is an important part of practice.

JL mentioned the 5 skandhas, have you read about them? You might find something of interest in them....

Yes I have read lightly the 5 skandhas Sky123. Also lightly the noble eightfold path.
They are similar practices I am familiar with from other traditions and ways.
When I first contemplated this Buddhist anatta from this thread.
Of course, since my thinking is ascetic and when I see and read (not-self) and think and meditate on not indulging the body I first go to annihilation.
1.Body want water. answer do not give body water. annatta done (not self) in maybe 5 days. Bing bang done. Ends earthly suffering.

So this middle path (moderation) seems most logical to my mind as an actual practice. Along with being aware in the present NOW of life.

As always Sky I appreciate your input.
* * * *
((()))
^^^^^
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  #1284  
Old 19-04-2019, 03:48 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
See the difference?

Yes, semantics of language.

Think of it like a triangle. Both are on the bottom line. One is on the left axis and one on the right axis. The left axis points to the right, as a direction. The right points to the left, in reality. Both are on the bottom level, the direction and trajectory is really the same, but the words point differently. (This is why there are different traditions - "Everything is Buddha" "Practice towards Buddhahood" Not understanding the inner art, some want to argue about how special the other is, and this gives rise to the mistake of sectarianism in Buddhist traditions, although the mark of a good guide will focus on the students on what really matters - the practice, compassion, true life and practice) The ways are not truly "different" in content and substance (and noting that what you say i.e. the Buddha never taught etc seems anathema to any basic facts) - and neither are at the top level, the third point at the top, however you want to position it.

Without "practice" there is no progress - and what you are talking about is simply a practice (the fact that you cannot abide by selective words that are used across all Buddhist traditions is indicative of a type of mindset). You want to say you are a fully awakened Buddha with all that it brings) go ahead. In Zen we say you are Buddha, everything is Buddha, but such things are only true when they are really true - not because you say it, or even if you can do a little bit of awareness practice, which is just the start of any serious meditation, not least the real progress. I don't know if you think that what you are saying is very extraordinary or different - it's not. Anyone can read and say such things, and understanding it to whatever degree you do is also nice, but right at the beginning of the road. Enjoy your life, and any semantics and certainty that goes with it

JL
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  #1285  
Old 19-04-2019, 03:49 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
As always Sky I appreciate your input.
* * * *
((()))
^^^^^

Yes, an astute and smart companion on this journey 'tis sky123

JL
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  #1286  
Old 19-04-2019, 05:07 PM
sky sky is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
Yes I have read lightly the 5 skandhas Sky123. Also lightly the noble eightfold path.
They are similar practices I am familiar with from other traditions and ways.
When I first contemplated this Buddhist anatta from this thread.
Of course, since my thinking is ascetic and when I see and read (not-self) and think and meditate on not indulging the body I first go to annihilation.
1.Body want water. answer do not give body water. annatta done (not self) in maybe 5 days. Bing bang done. Ends earthly suffering.

So this middle path (moderation) seems most logical to my mind as an actual practice. Along with being aware in the present NOW of life.

As always Sky I appreciate your input.
* * * *
((()))
^^^^^

Thank you
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  #1287  
Old 19-04-2019, 05:08 PM
sky sky is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
Yes, an astute and smart companion on this journey 'tis sky123

JL

And you JL, thank you
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  #1288  
Old 19-04-2019, 09:41 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Why do we need Krishnamurti to explain when you are, you can explain

That's like saying why do we need Buddha's or anyone's teachings.

Maybe this is more clear...paraphrased some for you...

Quote:
The mind has an idea, like enlightenment, and it wants to become or reach that idea, which is a projection of desire. You are this, which you do not like, and you want to become that, which you like. This seeking is a self or ego projection; it is an extension of what is, the ego, the delusional self; the result is just a continuity of what is, ego.

When you are aware of this trick which you have played upon yourself, - Krishnamurti....

Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism
By Chogyam Trungpa
In this modern spiritual classic, the Tibetan meditation master Chögyam Trungpa highlights the commonest pitfall to which every aspirant on the spiritual path falls prey: what he calls spiritual materialism. The universal tendency, he shows, is to see spirituality as a process of self-improvement—the impulse to develop and refine the ego when the ego is, by nature, essentially empty. "The problem is that ego can convert anything to its own use," he said, "even spirituality." His incisive, compassionate teachings serve to wake us up from this trick we all play on ourselves, and to offer us a far brighter reality: the true and joyous liberation that inevitably involves letting go of the self rather than working to improve it. It is a message that has resonated with students for nearly thirty years, and remains fresh as ever today.

They say the same thing I do.

Last edited by Rain95 : 19-04-2019 at 11:02 PM.
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  #1289  
Old 19-04-2019, 10:02 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
You want to say you are a fully awakened Buddha with all that it brings) go ahead.

lol I never said that. Quote or it didn't happen!

You meant this....this is what I said....

liberation that inevitably involves letting go of the self rather than working to improve it - Chogyam Trungpa

Becoming mind is dropped.

Last edited by Rain95 : 19-04-2019 at 11:05 PM.
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  #1290  
Old 19-04-2019, 10:25 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
Without "practice" there is no progress -

For somebody in "becoming mind" which is just "spiritual materialism" (to quote some Buddhist teachers) egotism or living in conceptual delusion in other words, giving up such egotistic practice and self delusions would be progress. So for these ego ruled types, giving up their egotistic practice would be great progress.
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