Any scientific proof of Astral Projection?

The proof is in the prediction. One must ask what the world would be like if there were or were not a spiritual realm.

If there were not then There are two more worlds to look at. One in Which people do not have spiritual experiences and one in which we do but are purely a mechanical result of biochemistry. If materialism is correct the. We live in the improbable world of mechanisms that just happen to hint at a spiritual realm.

Why floating above ones body near death? Why contact with divine beings, dead loved ones, and merging with the light. If not real occurrences then they are very real Experiences. I find it very hard to beleive that a mechanical universe would produce a vast amount of human experience closely resembling what would undeniably be experienced if there were amspiritual realm.

[Astral Explorer]

Astral Projecting is like being freed from a dirty dungeon that you have been living in for countless years. It is actually depressing to monks when they have to return to their bodies. Love and infatuation for a single person is fleeting and in todays society relationships rarely last "forever". Astral Projection and what it reveals to an individual is permanent and will stay with you until the day you die and pass over and find out the truth, unless you already found the truth out through APing. Either way the experiences and the wisdom and knowledge gained are permanently ingrained into your body, mind, and spirit and bring you that much closer to enlightenment. While love is definitely a good thing and learning to love others is a step in enlightenment, it is only a small part.

Originally Posted by Arawn

@ Earthatic:

A lot of the sensations you listed could be due to neurological issues or an over stimulation. This is from personal experience because I do have a neurological issue that, when I experience any of the sensations you stated, I must go into the doctor to help prevent the sensations getting worse and/or me becoming paralyzed.

Do you mind explaining a bit more? The sensations in the body could be caused by/or not caused by a neurological issue. Are you saying that meditation can mess up a person's nervous system? That seems unlikely.

The sensations have been noted before and a lot of them are neurological based,

There are various neurological/physical conditions that can cause sensations described as "tingly", yes, but the difference is that these can be explained and attributed to certain issues with the human anatomy. With astral projection, sleep paralysis, hypnagogia, ect... nothing is known about what causes these sensations.

and some can be caused from just becoming aware of the body.

The whole point of astral projection is to lose awareness of the body. Becoming aware of the body would cause the feeling of warm rushing vibrations to move through me? I don't know what to say...is my body vigorously vibrating without me being aware of it? These are as the feelings are described, but I would not liken it to the feeling of tremors or lack of blood circulation.

If you were to at least try astral projection for yourself, you'd notice the differences between the symptoms of your neurological condition and the feelings of what is called "chi".

There is almost always a slight ringing in the ears, particularly when there is silence around you.

Not a good explanation. Anyone who has experienced APing would agree. The ringing can be quite loud and this wouldn't account for the wide frequency of other noises and how it combines with the other sensations.

The mind is a complex thing and the biology of the brain isn't fully understood so I wouldn't go into anything saying that it is 100% spiritual. I acknowledge that AP could be entirely spiritual based, but it could also be neurological based or medical based. Or it could be a mixture of all of the above.

My main issue is when people refuse to even acknowledge that it could have nothing to do with the spiritual. Even if it doesn't have anything to do with the spiritual doesn't mean it doesn't have some sort of value.

It's possible, but for such an intense and profound experience, not a whole lot is being detected and explained by scientists. Since these methods cannot make sense of it, is it against the law to form a hypothesis (such as a spiritual concept) that is based on experience? The idea of the non-physical human energy system certainly works. This is observable to anyone who can meditate deeply enough.

[Astral Explorer]

The whole neurological response is mumbo jumbo I have all the same "sensations" and I've gone to countless doctors who tell me I am young, healthy, and thriving. Not even sure why skeptics come onto a spiritual forum. Go on a science forum or something if that is your belief.

@ Astral Explorer: I'm not a skeptic of the spiritual and never said I was. I follow 3 gods, meditate, and practice energy work. I have spiritual experiences, primarily dealing with ghosts and other such spirits/entities.

I'm skeptical of AP, mostly because the stories I've heard from people about it are fantastical and make little sense. It's possible that one or two of the stories of AP that I've heard about/read about happened, but I highly doubt the majority of them are actual cases of AP. It's not exactly hard to make up a story about AP because there's no physical proof of AP happening -- the same thing with reincarnation and talking about past lives.

One can be skeptical of some things that are said to be spiritual while not being skeptical of other things. There's a difference between being open minded and so open minded that your brain falls out.

I'm a bit offended that I'm called a skeptic of all things when I'm not, just AP and OOBEs. And I've had out-of-body experiences before.

As I recall, the main point of this thread was to see if there were any scientific proof of astral projection, which there isn't

@ Earthatic: I don't think meditation messes with a person's neurology. I just think that some of the things, such as tingly sensations and pressure, can be caused by it or by growing more aware of the body. When I practice energy work, I feel it through my body and experience pressures or tingly sensations. I doubt it has anything to do with the energy work, however, and that I'm just hyper-focusing on aspects of my body.

It's also possible that I've gone and pinched a nerve due to how I sit or stand. Or what I'm actually feeling is energy. Or my neurological issues are acting up, etc.

sleep paralysis, hypnagogia, ect... nothing is known about what causes these sensations

Except there is information on sleep paralysis and hypnagogia (http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders...leep-paralysis) (http://www.sleepdex.org/hypnogogia.htm) [just two of the many sites that I found about sleep paralysis and hypnagogia, some of which stated several more plausible theories than something spiritual] and most of it seems to point to it being a form of narcolepsy or at least being related to narcoplepsy, and there are ways to prevent both from occurring. There isn't much scientifically out there on AP, however. This could be because of various reasons: AP is real and is spiritual based; AP isn't real;science hasn't progressed to where AP can be studied; any other reason.

Scientists can only work with what they're given. If someone comes in to be tested while APing and the scientists are unable to find anything then it's possible that the person was lying or it was a dream. Or the scientists really can't find something because there might be a more spiritual based reason (or science hasn't gotten to the point of being able to find a reason behind AP).

I never said it was against the law to use a spiritual explanation. I was just stating my views on AP. I personally don't believe it's anything other than a vivid dream or hallucination, but some (a very very select few) might be experiencing actual astral projection on a spiritual level.

Originally Posted by Arawn

@ Earthatic: I don't think meditation messes with a person's neurology. I just think that some of the things, such as tingly sensations and pressure, can be caused by it or by growing more aware of the body. When I practice energy work, I feel it through my body and experience pressures or tingly sensations. I doubt it has anything to do with the energy work, however, and that I'm just hyper-focusing on aspects of my body.

How do you know if it is because you are more aware of your body? Why would you become aware of sensations your physical body cannot naturally feel? When sensory nerves are stimulated in some way, they send a signal to the brain. Why would it make these differences if you are focusing on it or not? In order to do energy work, you'd have to be sensitive to energy in your waking state in order to do it properly anyway, and perhaps that is what you are becoming aware of.
If you were to think it's neurological, then there would be the issue of why people are able to control movement and intensity of the sensations.

It's also possible that I've gone and pinched a nerve due to how I sit or stand. Or what I'm actually feeling is energy. Or my neurological issues are acting up, etc.

So people might just be pinching a nerve when they're astral projecting?

Except there is information on sleep paralysis and hypnagogia (http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders...leep-paralysis) (http://www.sleepdex.org/hypnogogia.htm) [just two of the many sites that I found about sleep paralysis and hypnagogia, some of which stated several more plausible theories than something spiritual] and most of it seems to point to it being a form of narcolepsy or at least being related to narcoplepsy, and there are ways to prevent both from occurring. There isn't much scientifically out there on AP, however. This could be because of various reasons: AP is real and is spiritual based; AP isn't real;science hasn't progressed to where AP can be studied; any other reason.

I had already mentioned before that they only had theories on these subjects. Other than brain activity, not much else is understood about why a person experiences these states. I'm not sure how I would consider these explanations as being more plausible than a spiritual one. All of them are basically wild guesses without any complete data to go on.

Also, if you've ever researched narcolepsy, you'd see that not much is known about it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcolepsy)

Scientists can only work with what they're given. If someone comes in to be tested while APing and the scientists are unable to find anything then it's possible that the person was lying or it was a dream.

Yeah, not much is known about those either. Again, just a few conjectures. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...hy-do-we-dream

If millions of people were all lying about experiencing it, there would really be no point in having so many forums dedicated to the subject.

Or the scientists really can't find something because there might be a more spiritual based reason (or science hasn't gotten to the point of being able to find a reason behind AP).

I never said it was against the law to use a spiritual explanation. I was just stating my views on AP. I personally don't believe it's anything other than a vivid dream or hallucination, but some (a very very select few) might be experiencing actual astral projection on a spiritual level.

What would make it a "very very select few"? As far as I know, anyone can experience astral projection.

There is no reason to assume AP experiences are not exactly what they appear to be. There is a phenomenon, we have an experience floating out of our bodies among other things. Unless somone can explain why it's not real it makes no sense in concluding that it's not. Just calling it fantastic dosnt cut it. For some of us it's a regular event.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Songbirds

I'm not a disbeliever or anything, but I'm wondering if there's any concrete proof supporting or criticizing the notion of astral projection?

And I'd love to hear your own experiences of AP :)

You can't prove astral projection, or any kind of 'spiritual' phenomena by any scientific means.

There is belief and there is subjective experience. Maybe there really is something beyond matter, or maybe it is a byproduct of the brain.
Most AP descriptions tend to be vague and resemble dream-like experiences. Then there is also sleep-walking.

People have these experiences, no doubt. But subjective interpretation is not groundbreaking.
Even if there is a ''soul'' or ''other body'' how would you prove that scientifically when it's immaterial?

@ Earthatic:

I don't know, but I also don't know if it's anything spiritual based or energy based. Tingly sensations and pressure is something that body can naturally feel, however. Such as when an appendage goes to sleep.

I don't think there would be an issue as to why people are able to control the movements. I think if the person thought about moving the energy and knew where they wanted to move, then that area would be the bit they concentrated on more and so the sensation would be more prevalent there instead of the other area.

Sure, why not? Why can't they have just gone and sat (or laid) in a position that their body just didn't really like and it lead to the variety of sensations that they're claiming to feel.

Where do you get the information that there are millions of people who are experiencing these symptoms? I don't see millions of people on this board saying they're experiencing it or on any other board I've been on for that matter.

I say a select few because I believe people jump on the band wagon of AP. They see others claiming to do AP so they must be able to do it as well. I generally don't trust people too often, especially people on online boards because it's very easy to lie on the internet when you don't have to make eye contact. And then when the person makes claims of it being the best thing ever, then my doubt really spikes.

People who talk about AP as if it was natural and nothing special I'm more likely to give the benefit of the doubt even though I haven't experienced AP personally.

@ Astral Explorer:

How do you define "enlightenment"?

And love can last a lifetime and beyond. I've seen that love can last a lifetime and can overcome many things; my own family (extended and not) generally haven't experienced divorce, or (if divorce did happen) then the person later married and they stayed married.

The neurological items may not be "mumbo jumbo". One can be perfectly healthy and still have odd sensations. In all respects, I'm a very healthy individual who just happens to have a neurological problem that may act up on occasion (last time it acted up was 5 years ago other than the residual problem that I have).

Again, AP could be real or it could be all in your head. Either way, it doesn't really matter. It can be beneficial and as long as it isn't harming you negatively, then there seems to be no reason to get yourself checked out.

(You = a general 'you' and not to an individual person.)

Originally Posted by Arawn

@ Earthatic:

I don't know, but I also don't know if it's anything spiritual based or energy based. Tingly sensations and pressure is something that body can naturally feel, however. Such as when an appendage goes to sleep.

I don't think there would be an issue as to why people are able to control the movements. I think if the person thought about moving the energy and knew where they wanted to move, then that area would be the bit they concentrated on more and so the sensation would be more prevalent there instead of the other area.

You're showing a lot of ignorance with these explanations. Plus, you just contradicted yourself... Why are you using the term energy now? I thought you didn't believe in energy and just thought these sensations were caused by being aware of the body - which wouldn't naturally give off these sensations for no reason...?

Sure, why not? Why can't they have just gone and sat (or laid) in a position that their body just didn't really like and it lead to the variety of sensations that they're claiming to feel.

*facepalm* You can astral project from any position while laying down, you can even do it sitting up (lotus position). It's not a matter of being in an awkward position causing pinched nerves or lack of blood flow because that would be dangerous. There is no reason why a healthy individual, lying flat on their back, should be susceptible to what science would call a combination of tinnitus, hallucinations, and a body rush. If it was this simple, the mystery of OBEs would have been solved by now
I can lie down while not meditating or attempting to AP and nothing will happen. It's a result of my meditation.

Where do you get the information that there are millions of people who are experiencing these symptoms? I don't see millions of people on this board saying they're experiencing it or on any other board I've been on for that matter.

"At least 5 and perhaps as many as 35 of every 100 people have had an OBE
at least once in their lives (Blackmore, 1982)" " In surveys from Canada, China, England, Japan and Nigeria, 20% to 60% of individuals reported having experienced sleep paralysis at least once in their lifetime." - quote from wikipedia, (sleep paralysis and hypnagogia is just the onset of an accidental OBE) not to mention all the cases of near-death experiences.
It would be safe to say millions (if not billions) of people experience this phenomenon who are alive today, not even counting all those in history who report religious/spiritual experiences. I don't need to explain it any further.

I say a select few because I believe people jump on the band wagon of AP. They see others claiming to do AP so they must be able to do it as well. I generally don't trust people too often, especially people on online boards because it's very easy to lie on the internet when you don't have to make eye contact. And then when the person makes claims of it being the best thing ever, then my doubt really spikes.

^ You're very naive and no have no experience with it. If you're going to argue about this subject, at least try astral projection and study it before you develop doubts or judgements.
It's like trying to explain colour to a blind person.