Word Games and Mental Contortions

[Shivani Devi]

First, whatever can be thought of being it, isn't it. Whatever can be spoken of being it, isn't it either.

"The Tao that can be named is not the Tao"

The nature of Reality is beyond all mental concept, language and attempts to describe it or the experience arising from the direct realisation of it!

So far, I have heard "I am connected to Oneness" when if such a thing exists, it is still DUALITY because for a 'connection' to occur, there requires a separation to be able to 'connect' when there IS no separation!

So far, I have heard "Oneness is doing it" when last I heard, Kriya is an aspect of Shakti - or action being part of Maya/Prakriti. Brahman/Oneness doesn't DO...it just IS.

Even "I am Brahman" is duality, because there has to still be the 'undifferentiated Self' AS itself as predicate to the Brahman that it 'is'.

Many are still using the ego and references to the ego to try and 'know'...'understand'...'connect'...'attribute' Brahman or Oneness as having a function which serves them to their own personal ends.

Nothing manifests AS Oneness and nothing manifests IN Oneness, as all manifestation is only the energy or VIMARSHA (Prakriti) of Brahman (Purusha) itself...in much the same way as if one is looking for a torch...they see the light of the torch and think they have found the torch itself. The light can only lead them to the source of it, until they find the torch, but the light isn't the torch - DUALITY.

Then, there is the TA vs NA debate...which is laughable because it mocks non-duality head-on by making even the term 'non-dual' into a dual concept and any reference of belonging to this school or that school is still DUALITY.

Any notion of "mine is better than yours" any notion of "there is room for both" any notion of "my guru said this/that"...yup, you guessed it - DUALITY.

I saw a very nice video today and it deserves its own thread beyond being an un-noticed video in another thread...please watch it and you may all begin to understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibHRXoxWV1o

When the ultimate Reality is experientially realised, words fail. It is indescribable! Until then, we can jump through as many hoops as we like, but all we'll be doing is jumping through hoops. Thank you.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

First, whatever can be thought of being it, isn't it. Whatever can be spoken of being it, isn't it either.

"The Tao that can be named is not the Tao"

The nature of Reality is beyond all mental concept, language and attempts to describe it or the experience arising from the direct realisation of it!

So far, I have heard "I am connected to Oneness" when if such a thing exists, it is still DUALITY because for a 'connection' to occur, there requires a separation to be able to 'connect' when there IS no separation!

So far, I have heard "Oneness is doing it" when last I heard, Kriya is an aspect of Shakti - or action being part of Maya/Prakriti. Brahman/Oneness doesn't DO...it just IS.

Even "I am Brahman" is duality, because there has to still be the 'undifferentiated Self' AS itself as predicate to the Brahman that it 'is'.

Many are still using the ego and references to the ego to try and 'know'...'understand'...'connect'...'attribute' Brahman or Oneness as having a function which serves them to their own personal ends.

Nothing manifests AS Oneness and nothing manifests IN Oneness, as all manifestation is only the energy or VIMARSHA (Prakriti) of Brahman (Purusha) itself...in much the same way as if one is looking for a torch...they see the light of the torch and think they have found the torch itself. The light can only lead them to the source of it, until they find the torch, but the light isn't the torch - DUALITY.

Then, there is the TA vs NA debate...which is laughable because it mocks non-duality head-on by making even the term 'non-dual' into a dual concept and any reference of belonging to this school or that school is still DUALITY.

Any notion of "mine is better than yours" any notion of "there is room for both" any notion of "my guru said this/that"...yup, you guessed it - DUALITY.

I saw a very nice video today and it deserves its own thread beyond being an un-noticed video in another thread...please watch it and you may all begin to understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibHRXoxWV1o

When the ultimate Reality is experientially realised, words fail. It is indescribable! Until then, we can jump through as many hoops as we like, but all we'll be doing is jumping through hoops. Thank you.

It is not the seeker that is either connected to, or disconnected from Oneness. For one very good reason:)

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

It is not the seeker that is either connected to, or disconnected from Oneness. For one very good reason:)

However you, yourself have used the term "I am connected to Oneness" many times on here. Why not just cut straight to the chase and say I AM (beyond the level of even being SELF-aware) and leave 'Oneness' out of the equation because even "Oneness" is just another mental concept...another 'name' of a Tao that cannot be named.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

However you, yourself have used the term "I am connected to Oneness" many times on here. Why not just cut straight to the chase and say I AM (beyond the level of even being SELF-aware) and leave 'Oneness' out of the equation because even "Oneness" is just another mental concept...another 'name' of a Tao that cannot be named.

You are so good at finding my posts. but notice you have not found one where I have said that for one very good reason.

:)

[Shivani Devi]

Thank you, Iamit. Would anybody ELSE like to give comment?

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you, Iamit. Would anybody ELSE like to give comment?

Yes totalitarians usually feel better when they are mob handed:)

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you, Iamit. Would anybody ELSE like to give comment?

well i was going to refrain for a change... but since you ask, you see I always have this problem of not shutting up even though I know for a fact that words are pretty useless in the domain I'm in. For some reason it always seems so nice to correct others even though the very fact of just saying something belies what I am saying and makes me totally hypocritical. Nice to see I'm not the only one with that problem!

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

well i was going to refrain for a change... but since you ask, you see I always have this problem of not shutting up even though I know for a fact that words are pretty useless in the domain I'm in. For some reason it always seems so nice to correct others even though the very fact of just saying something belies what I am saying and makes me totally hypocritical. Nice to see I'm not the only one with that problem!

Yes I also have that problem although I have it so much that I am not always convinced it is a problem:) The late great Chris Hitchens said "If you think you have gone to far, then you havent gone far enough". He was talking about resisting totalitarianism, particularly the religious kind.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Yes I also have that problem although I have it so much that I am not always convinced it is a problem:) The late great Chris Hitchens said "If you think you have gone to far, then you havent gone far enough". He was talking about resisting totalitarianism, particularly the religious kind.

Thing is about people like Christopher Hitchens is that he was privileged but unlike the Buddha for example who left behind his stately position of privilege to pursue a search into his own depths, Hitchens never left behind anything instead he barricaded himself in behind mountains of manuscripts and hefty attitudes about what way the world should be run. Why would you even begin to bring someone like Christopher Hitchens into a discussion about Advaita Vedanta, isn't it a bit like presenting Donald Trump as a conveyor of mexican culture and an authority on the liberation of the Mexican Mind ? How did Christopher enter this thread ? Or is it the great libertine Christopher Hitchens is gonna tell me what's going on through me epicurean lavished senses and help me to Get to the Dirty truth that of oneness through strategic epistemological erudite markers which will....what *confused* shrugs I don't understand !

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Thing is about people like Christopher Hitchens is that he was privileged but unlike the Buddha for example who left behind his stately position of privilege to pursue a search into his own depths, Hitchens never left behind anything instead he barricaded himself in behind mountains of manuscripts and hefty attitudes about what way the world should be run. Why would you even begin to bring someone like Christopher Hitchens into a discussion about Advaita Vedanta, isn't it a bit like presenting Donald Trump as a conveyor of mexican culture and an authority on the liberation of the Mexican Mind ? How did Christopher enter this thread ?

The violence of religions starts with smearing dissidents which has been going on in the attempt to discuss differences between NA and TA.

Try to let Chris Hitchens words stand on there own without the other stuff.