Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:10 AM
Bindu* Bindu* is offline
Knower
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 188
  Bindu*'s Avatar
I heartily agree with David Frawley's wiews about this. He is a longtime student of the Ramana maharshi teachings and a much respected schoolar in both India and the west for his encyclopedic knowledge about Hinduism and vedas et.c.

https://www.vedanet.com/the-teaching...integral-view/
"By David Frawley. Note: The teachings of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi (1878-1950), the great sage of Tiruvannamalai, South India, have become popular throughout the world as part of a new interest in Advaita or non-dualist Vedanta. However, there is a tendency to oversimplify his teachings as a kind of instant enlightenment for all that neglects the necessary prerequisites and support practices to make it really work. The following article attempts to elucidate the greater tradition behind the Maharshi’s teachings to provide students a better foundation for practice."

Quote:
...............................Though Bhagavan’s teaching is simple and direct, it is broad and flexible. It accepts all helpful yogic practices, even those that it may not specifically mention. The Maharshi’s path follows the integral approach of Vedic teachings going back thousands of years and, particularly, the Advaitic and yogic approaches taught by Shankaracharya (seventh century) that included devotional practices and raja yoga (as taught in texts like Saundarya Lahiri).

Many people today, particularly in the West, do not understand the interconnectedness of these various yogic disciplines and fail to understand their benefits. Simple formless Self-inquiry is difficult to sustain, except for very advanced aspirants who have well developed powers of attention and extreme dispassion from all external objects starting with the body itself.

Such detachment is, of course, extremely rare in this materialistic and sensate age. Additional practices are usually necessary to build the competence for this effort, which is said to be as daunting as scaling a steep rock face of a high mountain.....................................






Also another famous nondualist frequently emulated by nondualist teacher in the west; Nisargatta Maharaj did in fact practice bhakti yoga (devotional yoga), and did encourage mantra practice.

http://www.enlightened-spirituality....a_Maharaj.html
"We hasten also to note here that Nisargadatta Maharaj was a very devotional and spiritually respectful man, devoutly respecting the One Spirit or Reality in everyone, and maintaining an outwardly devotional life, even if he had inwardly long ago dropped any sense of dualism toward a separate God. This devotional, spiritually respectful aspect is lost on some of those who have more recently endeavored to spread Maharaj's teachings and even emulate his style of teaching. The Maharaj sang in his Marathi tongue the old bhajan songs and litanies four times daily (two sessions open to visitors), performed the traditional arati-worship ritual to his lineage of gurus and egalitarian distribution of prasad (fruit, sweets or flowers). And every morning he tirelessly (doerlessly!) cleaned, garlanded and anointed with sandalwood paste and kum-kum (vermillion) powder those altar photos and higher-hanging photos of the sages and saints adorning his meeting room. He was also known to have lovingly initiated many aspirants from East and West into mantra-recitation in a traditional Guru-disciple relationship (see a text of one such encounter, reproduced below), and to promote veneration of the Guru, as Sri Siddharamesvar had likewise done before him."



Just some food for thoughts......
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20-11-2017, 04:31 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 268
  Moondance's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
There are numerous examples of resistance to change. Traditionalists tried to boo Bob Dylan of the stage and called out "Judas" when he first turned up with The Band, some of the finest musicians in the business, as can be seen in Martin Scorses documentory "No direction home" and on You Tube.

What were those traditionalists so scared of? Why did they get so excited about him exploring different ways?

Were those traditionalists sucessful in their threats and intimidation to prevent Dylan exploring his art in any way he wanted?

No....he turned up the volume :)

Neo Advaita has as much right to expression as the traditional view. If it resonates with you, dont let traditionalists shut down debate and intimidate you with their abuse. There are already signs that this is happening here, If such bullies are not challenged you will only be allowed to discuss what they say you can. Is that what you want for this forum?

Turn the volume up.

If I were you I’d just drop the ‘Neo Advaita’ term. It is, after all, a made-up label which is used politically and indiscriminately to discredit almost any modern teaching which does not agree with or apply gradualist Vedanta methodology. Let’s assess (if we need to) these (direct pointing/sharing/reporting) speakers and their methods (or perceived lack of) on a case by case basis rather than lumping them all together under a spurious banner which is not acknowledged by any of those cited.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20-11-2017, 05:07 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindu*
I heartily agree with David Frawley's wiews about this. He is a longtime student of the Ramana maharshi teachings and a much respected schoolar in both India and the west for his encyclopedic knowledge about Hinduism and vedas et.c.

https://www.vedanet.com/the-teaching...integral-view/
"By David Frawley. Note: The teachings of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi (1878-1950), the great sage of Tiruvannamalai, South India, have become popular throughout the world as part of a new interest in Advaita or non-dualist Vedanta. However, there is a tendency to oversimplify his teachings as a kind of instant enlightenment for all that neglects the necessary prerequisites and support practices to make it really work. The following article attempts to elucidate the greater tradition behind the Maharshi’s teachings to provide students a better foundation for practice."








Also another famous nondualist frequently emulated by nondualist teacher in the west; Nisargatta Maharaj did in fact practice bhakti yoga (devotional yoga), and did encourage mantra practice.

http://www.enlightened-spirituality....a_Maharaj.html
"We hasten also to note here that Nisargadatta Maharaj was a very devotional and spiritually respectful man, devoutly respecting the One Spirit or Reality in everyone, and maintaining an outwardly devotional life, even if he had inwardly long ago dropped any sense of dualism toward a separate God. This devotional, spiritually respectful aspect is lost on some of those who have more recently endeavored to spread Maharaj's teachings and even emulate his style of teaching. The Maharaj sang in his Marathi tongue the old bhajan songs and litanies four times daily (two sessions open to visitors), performed the traditional arati-worship ritual to his lineage of gurus and egalitarian distribution of prasad (fruit, sweets or flowers). And every morning he tirelessly (doerlessly!) cleaned, garlanded and anointed with sandalwood paste and kum-kum (vermillion) powder those altar photos and higher-hanging photos of the sages and saints adorning his meeting room. He was also known to have lovingly initiated many aspirants from East and West into mantra-recitation in a traditional Guru-disciple relationship (see a text of one such encounter, reproduced below), and to promote veneration of the Guru, as Sri Siddharamesvar had likewise done before him."



Just some food for thoughts......

Hi Bindo,

Yes all that you refer to may work for certain characters, for example those in the East that may have been raised in those traditions, and for those in the West whose characters also suit paths and practises. Characters vary and for some those traditions may not seem relevant at all. It is not a coincidence that Neo Advaita has become more popular than Traditional Advaita in the West as our traditions are more thought based around ideas and concepts in Western philosophy of which there is much. It is not surprising that the East has been adapted by the West to suit its different traditions. Some traditionalists understand this, others do not and in some cases bitterly. In my view there is no need for the dispute if cultural and character differences are taken into account.

So what has been called the direct method resonates more in the West and is regarded as valid by those it suits as the traditional is for its supporters. One size does not fit all.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20-11-2017, 05:38 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
If I were you I’d just drop the ‘Neo Advaita’ term. It is, after all, a made-up label which is used politically and indiscriminately to discredit almost any modern teaching which does not agree with or apply gradualist Vedanta methodology. Let’s assess (if we need to) these (direct pointing/sharing/reporting) speakers and their methods (or perceived lack of) on a case by case basis rather than lumping them all together under a spurious banner which is not acknowledged by any of those cited.

Ideally yes but it my view its too late for that. The abuse towards Neo Advaita by traditionalists is so great that they would simply regard what you suggest as a smokescreen and rightly so:)

Better to not engage the abuse which in my view will become more and more ridiculous (even sleeping patterns come in for scrutiny:), and just continue to try and discuss the issues between people interested in mutual understanding, so that seekers may see the difference and choose what suits them.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20-11-2017, 06:05 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
There's a relation between the traditional and what is viewed as authentic.



Yes, people are ultimately left to determine their own 'way', so it's better to be supportive than it is to be influential.

People can make up thier own minds about how authentic are speakers and the ideas described. I have met Tony Parsons and other speakers on Neo Advaita. In my view they are sincere in thier desire to describe as directly and clearly as they can, the philosophy "All is One" and its implications for the spiritual search. If authenticity is an issue it would be best to meet them or at least watch them rather than smear them all as a cult or suchlike which is designed to group them in with criminals and is therefore indeed abuse.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 20-11-2017, 10:57 PM
dream jo dream jo is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: sea dream u cud say
Posts: 22,346
  dream jo's Avatar
yep we all hav difrt ways we do
__________________
dream jo


i dream dreams all dreams
🌟🌟🌙🌙☔☔🌆🌆🌁😈😎😒💋💑💑💑💌🍨🍩🍔🌟🌟🌟✴🍩🍔
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:05 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Oh **** it guys, I cant be arsed to take on these trolls single handed. Whatever you do dont mention Neo Advaita if you dont want to be abused as criminal cultists:). If you want to avoid that you will have to stick to thier agenda so you wont have the comparison anymore between NA and TA to consider here. You will have to go to someone like Tony Parsons for that.

Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20-11-2017, 11:07 PM
dream jo dream jo is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: sea dream u cud say
Posts: 22,346
  dream jo's Avatar
try 2 blok thm if u can i had 1 on my o e mal acont only way i got ru rid wz bloc her
i dnt evn no her
__________________
dream jo


i dream dreams all dreams
🌟🌟🌙🌙☔☔🌆🌆🌁😈😎😒💋💑💑💑💌🍨🍩🍔🌟🌟🌟✴🍩🍔
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 21-11-2017, 05:58 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 937
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindu*
I heartily agree with David Frawley's wiews about this. He is a longtime student of the Ramana maharshi teachings and a much respected schoolar in both India and the west for his encyclopedic knowledge about Hinduism and vedas et.c.

https://www.vedanet.com/the-teaching...integral-view/
"By David Frawley. Note: The teachings of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi (1878-1950), the great sage of Tiruvannamalai, South India, have become popular throughout the world as part of a new interest in Advaita or non-dualist Vedanta. However, there is a tendency to oversimplify his teachings as a kind of instant enlightenment for all that neglects the necessary prerequisites and support practices to make it really work. The following article attempts to elucidate the greater tradition behind the Maharshi’s teachings to provide students a better foundation for practice."








Also another famous nondualist frequently emulated by nondualist teacher in the west; Nisargatta Maharaj did in fact practice bhakti yoga (devotional yoga), and did encourage mantra practice.

http://www.enlightened-spirituality....a_Maharaj.html
"We hasten also to note here that Nisargadatta Maharaj was a very devotional and spiritually respectful man, devoutly respecting the One Spirit or Reality in everyone, and maintaining an outwardly devotional life, even if he had inwardly long ago dropped any sense of dualism toward a separate God. This devotional, spiritually respectful aspect is lost on some of those who have more recently endeavored to spread Maharaj's teachings and even emulate his style of teaching. The Maharaj sang in his Marathi tongue the old bhajan songs and litanies four times daily (two sessions open to visitors), performed the traditional arati-worship ritual to his lineage of gurus and egalitarian distribution of prasad (fruit, sweets or flowers). And every morning he tirelessly (doerlessly!) cleaned, garlanded and anointed with sandalwood paste and kum-kum (vermillion) powder those altar photos and higher-hanging photos of the sages and saints adorning his meeting room. He was also known to have lovingly initiated many aspirants from East and West into mantra-recitation in a traditional Guru-disciple relationship (see a text of one such encounter, reproduced below), and to promote veneration of the Guru, as Sri Siddharamesvar had likewise done before him."


Just some food for thoughts......

Very beautiful and respectful contributions, Bindu. Much gratitude.

BT
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 21-11-2017, 06:12 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 937
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Hi Bindo,

Yes all that you refer to may work for certain characters, for example those in the East that may have been raised in those traditions, and for those in the West whose characters also suit paths and practises. Characters vary and for some those traditions may not seem relevant at all. It is not a coincidence that Neo Advaita has become more popular than Traditional Advaita in the West as our traditions are more thought based around ideas and concepts in Western philosophy of which there is much. It is not surprising that the East has been adapted by the West to suit its different traditions. Some traditionalists understand this, others do not and in some cases bitterly. In my view there is no need for the dispute if cultural and character differences are taken into account.

So what has been called the direct method resonates more in the West and is regarded as valid by those it suits as the traditional is for its supporters. One size does not fit all.

Someone who had partaken in Neo-Advaita described it here:

The author, Tom Huston, describes his youthful descent into the craziness of this New Agey teaching that we’re all already enlightened; we just don’t know it. Concerning Andrew Cohen and the editors of “What is Enlightenment?” Huston says:

No matter how effective a mystical teaching Advaita might have been in India’s ancient past, its newborn Western child, Neo-Advaita, seemed to be missing something significant. Isolated from its Eastern religious and historical context and taught as a quick-fix, no-frills contemporary path to spiritual enlightenment, they noticed its tendency to ignore traditional values like ethics and the cultivation of personal integrity.

http://www.hinessight.blogs.com/chur...i_eli_and.html

Maybe that provides another perspective to help clarify your questions/context.

BT
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums