Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 19-10-2017, 02:47 PM
Astro Astro is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Earth, from Beta Centauri
Posts: 1,918
  Astro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
When I said I'd only discuss if prompted, I didn't mean I'd respond to being baited, so I'm gonna leave you to it now - sorry if I don't reply to you from now on.

I don't appreciate your accusation, I am angry with you for treating me with ignorance!

I have expressed my frustrations with your one sided attitude. Talking with you has been a thorough waste of my time!

You couldn't even apply your own values or senses to this discussion, you have shown no consideration for my perspective. You have dictated to me!!

I have a strong point of view, but I was not ramming it down any ones throat. It was you who approached me remember!!

I expected my last post to have marked the end of the discussion between us; I do not want this to degenerate any further, but you have earned a piece of my mind!!

I've got nothing more to say to you on this matter.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 19-10-2017, 04:26 PM
lemex lemex is online now
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
The difficulty with karma are inclusion of the elements of speech and thought where we are focusing on action. Where we say karma is determined by action imo includes not only what one does but what does not do is or is in how karma works. The multi foundation of karma are acts, speech and thought (and not appearance but truth).
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 19-10-2017, 04:40 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Absolutely a prime example of how karma influences and effects individuals .

It's not that common I would say generally speaking where individuals get to understand and resolve the nature of their experience that is karmic based while in their current incarnation .

I don't think it's entirely necessary for people at the time to understand that what happens or what is felt is due to past energy in order for things to be resolved but there is a shift felt and acknowledged when the penny eventually drops ..

As you know I had 3 years of not feeling happy or worthy of happiness until the reasons for that surfaced and then another 3 years healing the matter .

I would say individuals need at some point to understand the dynamics of such experiences to truly get an understanding of how such past energies effect them in the present moment ..

You can't outrun or outbox your shadow as the saying goes, one also can't outrun their karma ..if they believe in it or not, makes no difference ..

x daz x
Hey there Dazzer! How have you been?
Yup, makes no diff ;) ...and now I'm much stronger, I suppose I'd rather know now. For the perspective.

The more I learn, the more I get why I was so resistant to looking at past lives for so long. I was kilt in like 5 of 6 of them, LOL and the last, I did myself in by accident... Pretty macabre humour here, LOL... You know you've got some perspective when you can see the humour in this level of tragedy and really just feel the residuals...the love and the awareness, mainly. It's brand new & I still have no real memory of that life at all, only a few brief scenes where I was shown giving a long embrace to my son at different times in his life. My dress looked archaic and old-fashioned, for sure. I don't normally recall much this kind of detail (type of clothing) but I was shown the scenes via the guide. No pre-death scene per usual like when I remember. It's funny, all that ever remains is love, pain, and intention relating to key issues...in other words, the shaping of who we are.

Hey, it's not like I got any preparation for being a woman after 3 lifetimes as a tall, strong, easygoing gent...it is total buggers and you screw up royally in the courage department the 1st go round, simply because you're trying to comprehend how to get by with nothing in your pocket AND maintain your dignity. It's a zen koan...the answer is, there is no way to "get by" with nothing in your pocket AND value your integrity. If you just suck it up and take it, the fallout on others like your children is simply horrific and cannot be excused. You simply have to go balls out and have the courage to meet your death every day. Women's balls being on the inside...it takes immense strength of heart, and much practice manifesting your integrity in word and deed -- and along the way, you're gonna take a lot of beat downs, including routine rape, abuse, and early death. Whilst most probably being despised, judged, and mocked...as humanity have always despised the weak and have brutalised them mercilessly.

The physically weak are the punch bags of the physically strong, and all women have historically been the punch bags of men ("punching bags" in US). Most women historically were often penetrated or routinely penetrated without consent and certainly without love (it's called "marriage", where women were property transferred from fathers to husbands). Along the way, we can bear kids and spread whatever love we can...and the hope is always that in time, the rest of humanity receive enough of that love to have the epiphany that young man did, and many other epiphanies as well...that lead them away from darkness and toward agape, toward the love and light that we are.

In that situation of historical oppression and violence, there is nothing to do but absorb the blows till you break and your time here is done. You can take it lying down, or you can take it standing. After my first screw-up where I was spiritually beat-down and broken, and I failed my son -- next go round, I CHOSE to take the oppression standing up, and as my one reward you might say, I got to choose my own death (so to speak, LOL)

As a woman, you're not strong and you're easily beat down and raped...and no one values your humanity like that of men, certainly not historically. In order to transcend, you've got to laugh at death and greet it with a heartfelt smile daily simply to stand your ground. Where you can break or you can die (or both), either from abuse or deprivation (living on the margins), throughout most of history. If you as a woman don't resort to deceit and manipulation (which I did not), you probably won't live long. And predictably, I did not, in either lifetime. Of course, the sick fact is I survived longer being abused and raped daily than I did living more honourably on the margins. Also predictable, eh? Because surviving is not the same as living, no matter how menial and difficult the life.

So I think I sort of accidentally figured out one of the eternal truths, and it's a slingshot to growth because nothing intimidates you...just nothing. Not death, not violence, and not even cruelty. When you've got nothing to lose, and nothing in your pocket, what can they possible take from you (aside from your children)?
But it's not easy and no one thanks you for it, either. Just to be sure I cover that, thank you for all you and everyone else here at SF have done for me. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart :)

Quote:

It's not that common I would say generally speaking where individuals get to understand and resolve the nature of their experience that is karmic based while in their current incarnation .

I suppose not, LOL :) But if you can, wouldn't you want to know and resolve it? Once you're ready to handle it? For myself, I feel it is yes. Because if we don't move forward and love and forgive when we can, look what happens. It can take many lifetimes. I feel pretty certain I had no memory of what had gone before in any of those other lifetimes...just the residual feeling...love, pain, and soul connections brought fwd. Those things we all have. They register at some subconscious level (i.e., familiarity, or phobias, etc.) but generally no one understands these things well prior to attaining a much deeper level of awareness.

What's your position on it, speaking for your own experiences and karmic stuff? If that's ok to ask...otherwise, no problem.

Quote:
I don't think it's entirely necessary for people at the time to understand that what happens or what is felt is due to past energy in order for things to be resolved but there is a shift felt and acknowledged when the penny eventually drops ..

Yes...this also really resonates. I have had a lot of pennies dropping over the past year, and there really was a bit more of a real shift in spirit around the spiritual new year in September, having to do with a mutuality of authentic love, ownership, contrition, and forgiveness...all just in spirit but ultimately perhaps leading to that reconciliation somewhere, someday to be actually manifested in our day-to-day existence, which would be a lovely thing. Peace, agape, equanimity, and reconciliation on the ground...all good things in the world we live in, and in one's life too really, if we're lucky enough to have them. In due time, I like to think we all will merit that fortuitous situation where we live as one in direct expression of who we are (at core, i.e., simply who we truly are, without obstructions).

There is a real push to manifest love in being and doing right now, to remove all obstacles to the natural outpouring in word and deed (manifestation) of the love we are in spirit (illumination). I'm picking up the vibes very strongly and I'm suddenly hearing it from all manner of unrelated channels, including traditional religious ones. It's all connected. Just when you may observe very little of who you are or what you do in the waking world is impactful (true in some superficial or surface measures), you also see reminders about manifesting authentic love and how every intent has a karmic outcome. Intend good things, then, right? In the highest good of all :) And hopefully, manifest them as well, as best we can.

Quote:
As you know I had 3 years of not feeling happy or worthy of happiness until the reasons for that surfaced and then another 3 years healing the matter .

That's right, I remember you mentioning in other places. What was the situation there? Was it something similar to what I've been discussing? It's funny how very universal and commonplace these situations were. It's funny how we get the same situations over and over in new lifetimes...i.e., yet another loving but weak and unreliable mum -- or perhaps now it's one's dad or one's (ex) partner etc...(or perhaps all of these, LOL). Or say low mood again in this life which you've got to own and bolster (no getting out of it through accidental death or what have ye), residual from carrying guilt over real failures and real rejections (murder, etc) that have not been healed and reconciled properly in prior lives to date. We've all been there at some point, it seems.

Here's sending some love and hugs to you in dealing with whatever you've been going through And here's hoping we all taste a little agape on earth, manifested in a mutuality of authentic love, contrition, forgiveness, and reconciliation for one another in the context of that greater circle of belonging.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 19-10-2017 at 07:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 19-10-2017, 04:51 PM
Astro Astro is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Earth, from Beta Centauri
Posts: 1,918
  Astro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Astro, yes and this matches kamra. Think in terms of language. I myself don't use old or outdated language, we move away such word and usage, don't we. Did our ancestors have such words as you have (know) today. The knowledge is the same. If you wish to use these words then do it. We try to explain new idea with old words and once you use new words, words they did not know, you feel it changes? Absolutely cause and effect through incarnation. Do you think a person can get it right in only one try? Also keep in mind the idea comes from practice and experience where a person saw something, a previous cycle so there it would be manifested whereas if it wasn't encouraged and taught it wouldn't happen. imo, don't think new words mean new things but think in terms of the audience. It is easier to understand common usage and one should try to mix the words in ways it can be understood imo.

I believe that it’s not a good idea to let go of the meaning of words for the sake of popular trends. The “language” may be old but it isn’t irrelavent.
I’m learning about ancestors currently & what has been told is that when descendant are connected to their ancestors, then they are able to communicate there wisdom over millenia.

I’m learning that our integrity is in our past, not in the present or the future.

So I feel inclined to disagree with you because popular trends can undermine culture & comprimise its integrity & value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
So if you know the fundamentals of karma, please tell us. I'd like to know your point.

I did say in a previous post that I’m interested in the relationship of karma with Buddhism & Hinduism, which both present the teaching that karma is about incarnation as a series of trials; something I disagree with.

But I was ignored...
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 19-10-2017, 05:55 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro
I did say in a previous post that I’m interested in the relationship of karma with Buddhism & Hinduism, which both present the teaching that karma is about incarnation as a series of trials; something I disagree with.

But I was ignored...

Perhaps it is your karma to be ignored!!

But seriously, do you disagree with the idea of reincarnation (without which any idea of karma makes no sense)?

Or do you disagree with the idea that the process of reincarnation is a series of trials? In which case, what is the purpose of all these lifetimes.

Life does not have to be a trial. There are many joys in life, but we tend to learn more from our difficulties.

And if karma and reincarnation is a fact then it doesn't matter whether we agree with it or not - we are still subject to it.

Peace.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 19-10-2017, 06:24 PM
lemex lemex is online now
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro
I did say in a previous post that I’m interested in the relationship of karma with Buddhism & Hinduism, which both present the teaching that karma is about incarnation as a series of trials; something I disagree with.

But I was ignored...

I was unaware these systems had the word trials in them. Interesting.

Is the concept of trials part of these beliefs and are they the same as the western concept is. Thank you for letting me know this. And you also make a great point, recognizing how words cross over generational ways and in time mask every belief thus far that have new ideas to the old. Still I'm not dissuaded as something is going on like it...lol.

You know, even in my own system the word trial is used but I don't stereotype it. I disagree with the use of it but it wouldn't cause me leave. For instance, what happens if you fail a trial?

Does creator speak to us. Personally I see some ideas should be changed when and if they need to be, and truthfully it seems the larger audience knows something teachers in many respects argue against. Some things are true and some are not I feel.

In this respect I have found I can point out errors in my own system to question so I sure can point out what I see in others as well...lol.

Last edited by lemex : 19-10-2017 at 09:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 19-10-2017, 06:38 PM
lemex lemex is online now
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
But seriously, do you disagree with the idea of reincarnation (without which any idea of karma makes no sense)?



Some say when you die you move into the spirit world, whatever that is. Who knows.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 19-10-2017, 06:50 PM
lemex lemex is online now
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Perhaps it is your karma to be ignored!!


Now this is the flaw I see in karma. Karma says if you ignored (knowingly) a person (hurting them) in the previous life you will be ignored in this one to experience and learn. If I in thought belittle and hurt another, I (in thought) will go through it to. What if the intention was not that, but felt it was but wasn't correct. That's the energy of it? Harm equals harm?

There are so many feelings one can have you could literally have many equal experiencing to grasp. If I wrong here then I am wronged, so on and so on. Let's say I picked on a person because I was bigger and more powerful then they, karma it will be returned.

But what of the person who wronged me in the next life. Karma says I had to be wronged as I wronged. Was that their role or were they just average souls that will go through the same karma. Did they have a choice?

Last edited by lemex : 19-10-2017 at 09:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 19-10-2017, 07:44 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
  7luminaries's Avatar
You do not have to be wronged in turn. That person whom you wronged previously may have already forgiven you from a place of love. They may choose to treat you with love, regardless of how you've treated them previously or in this lifetime. That does not mean they stick around whilst you treat them badly ad infinitum. They can send you love from a distance if need be.

Regardless, if the two of you interact, you always get to choose how treat them. Likewise they always get to choose how they treat you. You are always responsible for your own choices and how you treat others, regardless of how they've treated you in the past or vice versa.

This is the real meaning of how karma is healed and ultimately transcended...which is to simply practice authentic love in being and doing in all things. In your intent, your thought, your word, and your deed. Simply meet each moment with authentic love in being and doing.

This is the much deeper truth of "turn the other cheek", though it is a truth that is at first difficult to reconcile with our mainstream, everyday way of thinking (which is 1st-chakra based and deals in terms of basic survival, home and tribal defense, and bodily protection).

If that other person does the same, they can greet you with lovingkingness, and you can do the same. And regardless of what befell you in past lives, you can bring that same lovingkindness to your current exchange, which will help to heal and fortify you both...and which may allow you to more fully heal and reconcile the karma between you in all realms.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 19-10-2017, 10:35 PM
Astro Astro is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Earth, from Beta Centauri
Posts: 1,918
  Astro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Perhaps it is your karma to be ignored!!

But seriously, do you disagree with the idea of reincarnation (without which any idea of karma makes no sense)?

Or do you disagree with the idea that the process of reincarnation is a series of trials? In which case, what is the purpose of all these lifetimes.

Life does not have to be a trial. There are many joys in life, but we tend to learn more from our difficulties.

And if karma and reincarnation is a fact then it doesn't matter whether we agree with it or not - we are still subject to it.

Peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
I was unaware these systems had the word trials in them. Interesting.

Is the concept of trials part of these beliefs and are they the same as the western concept is. Thank you for letting me know this. And you also make a great point, recognizing how words cross over generational ways and in time mask every belief thus far that have new ideas to the old. Still I'm not dissuaded as something is going on like it...lol.

You know, even in my own system the word trial is used but I don't stereotype it. I disagree with the use of it but it wouldn't cause me leave. For instance, what happens if you fail a trial?

Does creator speak to us. Personally I see some ideas should be changed when and if they need to be, and truthfully it seems the larger audience knows something teachers in many respects argue against. Some things are true and some are not I feel.

In this respect I have found I can point out errors in my own system to question so I sure can point out what I see in others as well...lol.

Karma appears to me to be presented as debt, which is why I don’t see it as being real. It appears to be designed to influence the way people live their lives in a way that would keep them in a psychological behavioural pattern based on trial (or punishment) & reward. So an illusionary debt is created.

Every incarnation to me is a fresh start, & the reason we have so many problems & experience great difficulties is because we live in a broken society. We are supposed to live within the circle of life where we belong.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums