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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #21  
Old 31-10-2019, 04:53 AM
MAYA EL
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laeÞ-tybe( hleî[] ~Wq± bqoê[]y:-la,( ‘~yhil{a/ rm,aYOÝw: Genesis 35:1
ynEßP.mi ^êx]r>b'B. ^yl,êae ha,är.NIh; ‘lael' x;Beêz>mi ~v'ä-hfe[]w: ~v'_-bv,w>
`^yxi(a' wf'î[e
The first “God” is elohim and is singular because the verb (in red) is
singular. In the phrase “to the god who appeared,” the word God is
singular and El, not elohim. The following verb (in red) is singular.
So taking 35:1 and 35:7 in tandem, Jacob saw El, the god of Israel,
and the gods appeared to him – the council. There’s a lot of coll
stuff like this in the Hebrew text that’s missed.
4) Finally, a note on ha-elohim. This form of elohim with attached article
can also be either singular or plural; it is not always plural. The above Gen
35:7 is an example where it is plural. Below is a clear singular reference.
aWhå hw"ßhy> yKiî t[;d;êl' t'aeär>h' ‘hT'a; Deuteronomy 4:35
`AD*b;l.mi dA[ß !yaeî ~yhi_l{a/h'
TNK Deuteronomy 4:35 It has been clearly demonstrated to you that
the LORD He alone is God; there is none beside Him.
The highlighted word is Yahweh, the LORD, the God of Israel. This
is followed by the clause, “for HE [3rd singular pronoun in blue] is
ha-elohim.” That is, He is THE God (par excellence). There is
none beside HIM [another singular pronoun]. Ha-elohim here is
clearly singular according to the grammar.
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  #22  
Old 31-10-2019, 04:55 AM
MAYA EL
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Also keep in mind this is not my personal opinion on the topic I'm simply just adding in some new perspective that I have acquired over time.
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  #23  
Old 31-10-2019, 05:26 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYA EL
In the Hebrew Bible, there are roughly 2500 cases where elohim is used as a
singular noun denoting the God of Israel (that figure is arrived at on the basis of
grammar and logical context). It isn’t a guess. I’ll include my familiar illustrations
here that are on my website elsewhere:
Genesis 1:1
`#r,a'(h' taeîw> ~yIm:ßV'h; taeî ~yhi_l{a/ ar'äB' tyviÞareB. Genesis 1:1
KJV Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth.
In this case elohim is singular because the verb (in red) is 3rd
masculine singular in its grammar.
I could follow what you had written till I got to this part.
Is this the transliteration of the Hebrew to English?
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  #24  
Old 31-10-2019, 08:50 AM
NoOne NoOne is offline
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@Maya El

Interesting analysis, I think it is overly complex, if you ask me.

It really is very simple. El is the original sky God of that region (Ugaritic originally, if I recall), most likely related to An, the Sumerian Sky god. From An, we get Anunnaki, which can be interpreted either as sons of the Sky, or sons of the Sky God. Elohim means the same, just in Hebrew. El is obviously the root, the singular form would be either El or Eloh (from which we get Allah). The rest is just people trying to justify their own religious biases, but there is no question, that Judaism was originally polytheistic.

Catholicism retains some of that with the idea of the trinity and the Holy Mother. BTW, you mentioned that there is no Goddess in the Bible, but that isn't entirely true, since the Queen of Heaven (In-Anna in Sumerian) gets a couple of mentions and there is the idea of the Holy Ghost (symbolised by the Dove), bot of whom can be traced back to Ishtar.
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  #25  
Old 31-10-2019, 09:41 AM
MAYA EL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
I could follow what you had written till I got to this part.
Is this the transliteration of the Hebrew to English?

I'm not sure as to what exactly your confused about?
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  #26  
Old 31-10-2019, 09:46 AM
MAYA EL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOne
@Maya El

Interesting analysis, I think it is overly complex, if you ask me.

It really is very simple. El is the original sky God of that region (Ugaritic originally, if I recall), most likely related to An, the Sumerian Sky god. From An, we get Anunnaki, which can be interpreted either as sons of the Sky, or sons of the Sky God. Elohim means the same, just in Hebrew. El is obviously the root, the singular form would be either El or Eloh (from which we get Allah). The rest is just people trying to justify their own religious biases, but there is no question, that Judaism was originally polytheistic.

Catholicism retains some of that with the idea of the trinity and the Holy Mother. BTW, you mentioned that there is no Goddess in the Bible, but that isn't entirely true, since the Queen of Heaven (In-Anna in Sumerian) gets a couple of mentions and there is the idea of the Holy Ghost (symbolised by the Dove), bot of whom can be traced back to Ishtar.

Ok well if you want to keep your youtube epistemology in spite of research done by professionals in this particular area of study that's fine by me I was just sharing the information I came across for something new to chew on.
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  #27  
Old 31-10-2019, 10:13 AM
Busby Busby is offline
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Confusion rains and reigns. Which rein is right - the eternal question.

Why, one can ask, if 'God' be so exemplary do we not have a Bible written so that we can all, in all languages, unmistakably know what he wants us to know?

Shouldn't be a problem really.

Or did he, at some time, lose control?
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The constantly promoted belief (induced by religions) that we are born to be good and obey (in order to enter heaven) is a tragic error in the concept of the universe's plan and an insult to mankind's intellect.

'A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory'
- Mark Twain.
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  #28  
Old 31-10-2019, 10:32 AM
NoOne NoOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYA EL
Ok well if you want to keep your youtube epistemology in spite of research done by professionals in this particular area of study that's fine by me I was just sharing the information I came across for something new to chew on.

Those are my own conclusions, nothing to do with youtube.

I do appreciate you posting this research, I've read it and similar research online, though mostly summarised on Wikipedia, admittedly. It is the best I can do from where I live.

My personal impression with particularly Jewish authors trying to disprove the plurality of the Elohim in the Bible, is that they have religious motivations and are trying to force a conclusion that isn't naturally there. Personally, I am fine with Polytheism and dislike the obsession with trying to retroactively force a Monotheistic perspective on Judaistic texts. Just my own two cents.
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  #29  
Old 31-10-2019, 11:49 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYA EL
Genesis 1:1
`#r,a'(h' taeîw> ~yIm:ßV'h; taeî ~yhi_l{a/ ar'äB' tyviÞareB. Genesis 1:1
KJV Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
I could follow what you had written till I got to this part.
Is this the transliteration of the Hebrew to English?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAYA EL
I'm not sure as to what exactly your confused about?
I do not understand what
#r,a'(h' taeîw> ~yIm:ßV'h; taeî ~yhi_l{a/ ar'äB' tyviÞareB.
is.
It is not Hebrew and it does not seem to be a transliteration, so what is this?

I am baffled.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜


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  #30  
Old 31-10-2019, 12:49 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn



I do not understand what
#r,a'(h' taeîw> ~yIm:ßV'h; taeî ~yhi_l{a/ ar'äB' tyviÞareB.
is.
It is not Hebrew and it does not seem to be a transliteration, so what is this?

I am baffled.



It is Hebrew, and is exactly what Maya El has posted regarding Genesis.
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