About Hinayana, Mahayana and Tantra

I don't think they are the same.
I think Buddha had a pretty hands on way of getting from point A to point B.

I think what he taught did not have all that much to do with to "divine" realms..
It did have to do with freedom from suffering. A goal although hard to reach, difficult to understand.(his words) but attainable by men and woman obviously.

The more esoteric additions were undoubtedly part and parcel of the discussion between monks and were even practiced and taught by some of the noble ones/disciples..

Which is fine by the way, I think everyone who feel drawn to the more esoteric parts should definitely explore them. I know I did.. For me though these days.. I'd be happy to gain stream entry or 2nd path first before going there again.

WIth Love
Eelco

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

I don't think they are the same.
I think Buddha had a pretty hands on way of getting from point A to point B.

I think what he taught did not have all that much to do with to "divine" realms..
It did have to do with freedom from suffering. A goal although hard to reach, difficult to understand.(his words) but attainable by men and woman obviously.

The more esoteric additions were undoubtedly part and parcel of the discussion between monks and were even practiced and taught by some of the noble ones/disciples..

Which is fine by the way, I think everyone who feel drawn to the more esoteric parts should definitely explore them. I know I did.. For me though these days.. I'd be happy to gain stream entry or 2nd path first before going there again.

WIth Love
Eelco

Sounds good :)

You are deep enough to feel energy and do some of the more energy type practices to help move you along.

Let me know if you are interested.

All the best.

I just might.

I'll get back to you after my next retreat in April.

With Love
Eelco

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

I just might.

I'll get back to you after my next retreat in April.

With Love
Eelco

Sounds good and have fun on your retreat

[Shivani Devi]

Namaste.

I'm just reading through the whole thread here, as I take a current stock of myself in light of recent events.

I thank Jonesboy for posting that quote from Abinavagupta again and it was like a much needed bucket of ice-water to the face.

Sometimes, people get so bogged down within a philosophy, going around in circles and getting nowhere...asserting their own ideas and beliefs, as if any of it actually matters to another whose 'cup is already full'...so to speak and so it resembles an intellectual game of 'Pong'.

Yesterday, I was pretty much harshly criticised for following the "Hinayana path" and at first, I was annoyed with this label, but I realised that I do anyway, so why should anybody say that I follow a 'lesser tradition' bother me, when I am happy following it and the only person who has a problem with it, is another who follows the Mahayana one.

There's an 'unwritten law' that those who follow unorthodox and alternative teachings are going to be criticised and ridiculed for doing so, as 'par for the course' because if they were not so, then their teachings would be the main ones...however, there are also still remnants inside me of once being an Advaita Vedantin in that what is 'lesser' and what is 'greater' is still, of course duality -in all its arrogant, human glory.

To follow the path of Tantra, means to reconcile all duality...either through transcendence or through incorporation/merging of polarities or dualities of existence...much like Advaita Vedanta in a way and yet, the oxymorons people use within the schools of Tantra and Advaita Vedanta seem to me, to be downright ludicrous. "Lesser Tantra" vs "Greater Tantra"...."New Advaita vs Traditional Advaita" etc.

Here, we have a hair, folks...let's see who can split it in half with the most accuracy and yet still call it a full strand of hair.

I have been giving this a bit of thought...and after days of criticism, I sort of thought "so yeah, so even IF I am all those things you say, then what are you going to do about it?" and if you want me to change and become like YOU, please tell me, why it is that I should...beyond hearsay or unproven testimony? and of course, links to their scriptures, gurus and such will be given, but I see all that as 'spiritual advertising' in that the human mind and belief system is being treated and traded like a 'commodity'...in much the same way that currency or shares are...so of course, there's always going to be "come to the dark side...we have cookies there".

So, then others will say "I only want what is best for YOU" and I will say "how do you know what is best for me?" and they will say "because you obviously do not"...and so, the blind just leads the blind into oblivion.

Yes, I suffer with physical and mental ailments others try and 'spiritually treat' without giving me any credit whatsoever for knowing and understanding what I do about yoga and Tantric practice and treating me like a kindergarten student in Tantra 101 class for dummies and all I can say to that is 'puhlease...gimme a break here'!

It's also incredulous to observe the hypocritical accusations and projections which fly off in all directions: "I am the master, I know what I am talking about and you do not...therefore you are totally ignorant, prideful and full of self-importance/ego". Which leaves me doing a Jim Carrey impersonation "reeheeheeally" and "aaalllrightythen".

It seems to me that certain people would get much further if they said "here's what I was taught and it may/not relate to your current situation...you can take it or leave it...I personally feel it would provide great benefit, but whether you think it will or not, is up to you" and just leave it there...giving the other person time to consider it, digest it...because many are put off by the 'preacher in the pulpit' discussing 'fire and brimstone' doomsday scenarios.

Anyway, I'll probably have more to say later...but after being accused of being 'prideful'...I draw a line in the sand between 'pride' and 'conviction in one's beliefs/philosophy'...but by the same token, what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander and yet it is ego which puts the 'blinkers on' and makes all these lemmings willingly jump over the cliff, trying to take as many lemmings as they can with them to justify it. Thank you.