How much do you understand Pride?

[Honza]

What is the spiritual significance of Pride? It holds an important role in the Old Testament, it is considered the cardinal sin by the Christians, the East suspiciously avoids mentioning it (correct me if I'm mistaken) or ropes it in with ego and thus underestimates it.

How do you understand it? To me it is a BIG issue. It lies at the crux of spiritual reality. I will wait till I hear what you have to say before I say more.

[Dan_SF]

To the ego, sin is something that cannot be corrected.

so ask yourself, is there something that God cannot correct ?
Look at your answer to discover if you are listening to ego thoughts, or to thoughts of love.


The bible, as it is written, needs to be understood in the right way.

I do not know what christian religion is considering, but look on it, what you think they say, as this:

- If you feel pride, then there is probably a tendency that you have misstaken yourself as the cause of whatever you are prideful of.
God is the Cause of everything, and you are its effects.
When you think that you have caused something AND if you are, then, prideful of it, you are fearing that you are making yourself God. Your Ego-thoughts is then reinforcing Guilt.

If christians calls this as Cardinal Sin, then you need to understand what they really mean, when they say it.

The bible is written like this: "it is Sin to touch the wires of the wall socket with your fingers (when under current) ." - but what this mean is "if you touch the wires, you will get electrical shock"

Ego will tell you that this is Death, but then, decide who is in Charge, because your decision will bring you death or life.

Is there anything that God cannot correct/undo ?

(edit: do not touch the wires of the socket, because, then, you are listening to the Ego and he is powerless to keep your body alive.)

[sky]

Pride*is a two-faced*emotion, on the one hand it can be noble and good, and on the other it can be selfish and mean. It depends on how you use it It is not a sin to have emotions, it's the way we relate and use them that causes problems.
Sin=Miss the mark...

[Robinski78]

For a number of years now, I've been unable to arouse a feeling of pride, regards anything I've achieved, or attempted to do... I can feel completely satisfied about something (if it worked out) but that's as deep as it gets...

However.. I can evoke a feeling of pride, for that which has been achieved...
For instance... I once completely renovated a kitchen for someone and, on completion, I experienced a feeling of pride, for the end result: the appearance of that room... I thought it looked fantastic... As for myself, well: I just did the work... It's the same with everything I actually achieve or complete...

But that aside - if by chance I assist someone and they achieve something that they initially thought was impracticable or even impossible, I can feel proud of them (and make that known) for accomplishing their objective(s)...

I'm not complaining about that inability, in fact, I'm more than contented with such outcomes...

I've often wondered how many others there are, of a similar nature... I'd be more than pleased to find out...

Robbie....

[Shivani Devi]

I think a lot of it has to do with our own internal reward systems. We are giving ourselves a 'pat on the back' for an accomplishment.

This raises our own confidence and esteem, giving us greater strength within.

However, the moment it turns to pride, is the moment we expect the same response from others whilst basking in the glory of the accomplishment.

There are certain things that I feel 'proud of' even though I am not a proud person, I just acknowledge certain talents and strengths within myself, but I don't get too hung up about it.

There's a certain spiritual strength that comes from being proud of who you are and not what you do.

Pride cometh before the fall....always!

[Within Silence]

It seems that confidence can be mistaken for pride.

Shall a horse be proud of the speed it runs at or confident in its speed?

Does not beauty breed vanity? Yet, how could one be proud of the beauty it created not? Just as how could the horse be proud of the speed it also didn't create?

I see not how one could be proud of anything; did you create the ability to think, did you create words, did you create the energy you use to perform the tasks you perform?

Kinda like parents who are sooooooo.. proud of their kids as if they created them. Explain in exact detail how you created the miracle of conception, how you formed their nose, how you determined the speed at which their hair would grow, what mathematical formula did you use to determine how much stomach acid should be produced and what types of acid. You and I did/do none of these things, they all happen without our consent, without our intent. Humanity is not responsible for the creation of the miracle of life, it just uses it, rather life just uses us for its longing for itself. In the words of Khalil Gibran, your kids do not come from you, but rather through you.

On Children
Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

[Robinski78]

[quote=Within Silence]It seems that confidence can be mistaken for pride.

Shall a horse be proud of the speed it runs at or confident in its speed?

Does not beauty breed vanity? Yet, how could one be proud of the beauty it created not? Just as how could the horse be proud of the speed it also didn't create?

I see not how one could be proud of anything; did you create the ability to think, did you create words, did you create the energy you use to perform the tasks you perform?

Kinda like parents who are sooooooo.. proud of their kids as if they created them. Explain in exact detail how you created the miracle of conception, how you formed their nose, how you determined the speed at which their hair would grow, what mathematical formula did you use to determine how much stomach acid should be produced and what types of acid. You and I did/do none of these things, they all happen without our consent, without our intent. Humanity is not responsible for the creation of the miracle of life, it just uses it, rather life just uses us for its longing for itself. In the words of Khalil Gibran, your kids do not come from you, but rather through you.


Hi there Within Silence...

I don't know enough about poetry to comment on such, but as far as your personal thoughts and ideas are concerned, I go along with them wholeheartedly...

The theory of pride, is quite an in-depth subject and one could spend hours writing about it, but I'm not going to do that here and now...

Hope you get plenty of support and some interesting responses to your post...

Regards...

Robbie....

[Miss Hepburn]

I know a lot about pride. And agree with what has been said.
It is no different than jealousy or shame..it is a tool of the lower
egoic mind to keep us in delusion, separate from the truth...thus, missing the mark.

Vikekananda said there are 2 doors into the mind..the front and the back door.
The front door is pride; the back door is guilt.

Pride is not always a bad thing...as in, a child doing a good job.

[Within Silence]

[quote=Robinski78]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

It seems that confidence can be mistaken for pride.

Shall a horse be proud of the speed it runs at or confident in its speed?

Does not beauty breed vanity? Yet, how could one be proud of the beauty it created not? Just as how could the horse be proud of the speed it also didn't create?

I see not how one could be proud of anything; did you create the ability to think, did you create words, did you create the energy you use to perform the tasks you perform?

Kinda like parents who are sooooooo.. proud of their kids as if they created them. Explain in exact detail how you created the miracle of conception, how you formed their nose, how you determined the speed at which their hair would grow, what mathematical formula did you use to determine how much stomach acid should be produced and what types of acid. You and I did/do none of these things, they all happen without our consent, without our intent. Humanity is not responsible for the creation of the miracle of life, it just uses it, rather life just uses us for its longing for itself. In the words of Khalil Gibran, your kids do not come from you, but rather through you.


Hi there Within Silence...

I don't know enough about poetry to comment on such, but as far as your personal thoughts and ideas are concerned, I go along with them wholeheartedly...

The theory of pride, is quite an in-depth subject and one could spend hours writing about it, but I'm not going to do that here and now...

Hope you get plenty of support and some interesting responses to your post...

Regards...

Robbie....

Thank you for your reply Robbie.

I think that it is far more vitally beneficial for humanity to be thankful rather than prideful.

Not guilt ridden, not shameful, nor fearful, but full of thanksgiving, full of gratitude. There is so much we don't know, we don't understand, and yet we can be tankful for the opportunity which life has given each one of us. Instead fo being full of pride for our accomplishments, perhaps we can be humble and thankful, appreciative, and full of gratitude for every experience we have in life, both good and bad. For within misfortune hides fortune, and not that I wish suffering or misfortune on anyone, but if one looks deeply into them it can find the key to their release.

Humanity has a great distance to go in learning to humble itself before creation, before nature, it must remember its roots and that it is dependent upon nature for its existence, nature is not dependent upon humanity for its. For the support system must be in place prior to a species being brought forth, thus the species come out of the support system, it is not separate from it, humanity would be wise in remembering this vital truth and returning to a state of thankfulness for the very support system which it depends upon for its survival. Again, shall I be proud that vegetables grow in the garden to feed and nourish my body, or shall I be thankful? I choose thankfulness.

Also, I do not mean to demean anybodies kids or how they feel about their children with my original post, for I have two daughters myself. And of course as a parent I want what I think is best for them. But I am neither proud or not proud of my children, their life is their own not mine to live, their choices are theirs to make not mine. (my kids are older, 21 and 19) And yet I suggest my opinion, I guide as best as I can, but in truth many of my assumption, many of my expectations have been shattered and so I've had to sit and contemplate these supposed curve balls which life has thrown at me, and when I do I find that life has taught me a lesson not thrown me a curve ball. And the lesson is always to let go, accept them as they are, I am not living their life, they are living their own life. I love them for who they are, not for who I believe they should be, as this would be to love my own conceptions and not the truth.



It seems that pride is the result of the desire to control. If I have nothing to control what could I be proud or not proud of. What if I let go of the need to control? Then where is pride?

[Miss Hepburn]

Pride is something that disappears when we clearly have a direct experience that we
are always talking to ourselves.
So who are we having pride towards, say, if in a disagreement?

There is a saying ...Do you want to be happy or right?
That is where pride can come in...I chose to not care and just be happy...
leave the prideful, "But, you're wrong..." behind and smile and move on,
I say.