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  #1  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:04 PM
minxoto minxoto is offline
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How the devil can be good

I write this in this section because it's not just about christianity but involves also tarot.

In tarot the devil is known for focusing on the material.

We use the expression "possessed by the devil". It sounds horrible - like we are full of evil, but it's only referring to people and their possessions .

I own my computer. That makes me the devil. It's possessed by me.

Jesus Christ did also own things. He was not naked and had money. He was also the devil. His clothes and money were possessed by the devil.

But Jesus was a good person. And so am I. That's how the devil can be good.
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:37 PM
Badcopyinc
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I would actually go as far to elaborate on the fact that the devil was created by god.

The devil teaches you what to let go of so you can embrace the godliness in yourself. hence the old adage

You must walk through hell in order to get to heaven.

I would also add that owning things isn't necessarily bad. Some say its better to own things than let your things own you.
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:47 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Yes...I have a completely different take on this.
What we see as the personification of the material is simply what allows the material world 1) to exist and 2) to provide the potential for choice, for free will, which is only possible for us from within this time-bound, finite existence. Where we exist as individuated beings.

There is nothing "evil" about material existence. In fact it is a thing of immense love -- of goodness, beauty, and truth. Which requires time and a finite span of incarnation or materiality (i.e., a star is born and eventually its gaseous matter burns out....we incarnate into a body and eventually our body dies). The material aspects of existence are momentary and time-bound...but our individuation is, like all consciousness, eternal. We undergo growth and change only via these material incarnations which allow us to "step away" from all that is in its light and truth and love...and take choices here that touch us and show us and guide us more fully to who we are at core.

Outside material existence (the universe, experiencing life here, etc), choice is a different thing because we have a greater awareness of who we are and we experience love and connection more fully in each moment. But here, we often struggle to maintain that connection with heart and Source...and we must ultimately take choices based on who we are and what we stand for, not simply based on the bliss and pleasure in every moment. Here, choices matter in ways that are different and strike the chords of our heart differently to the eternal realms, because we experience a true ability to choose in each moment -- without foreknowledge of all things or of what we call "the future".

I saw you referenced some biblical stuff so I am throwing in some connections that may make sense to you:

Materiality requires two things, at core. Matter requires anti-matter. And Life or material existence requires time/death...or, finite boundaries. Both for balance and for growth, change, and existential meaning or learning. This is what this energy of "Satan" or Samael truly represents...it represents key aspects which balance and anchor the material into existence (i.e., anti-matter, and time/death) and makes possible choice and free will for us as individuated consciousness -- as incarnated sentient beings. These are immense gifts of great love which allow the soul to experience obstacles and challenges and growth. These energies seem to be adversarial in nature, hence "Satan" (the adversary)...anti-matter opposes (or constrains or balances) matter, and time and death oppose (or constrain or balance) life. But they are necessary for us to experience All that Is in material form.

The "evil" we perceive in expression all round is (and within us) is simply misdirection or misalignment. When we are misaligned with our true nature, we are misdirected. We are turned away from our path and our centre, and thus we miss the mark (sin="to miss the mark" or the target). To turn around (on your path) toward right alignment is teshuvah, or "repent" (= to return). You may stray from your soul's own true path to your centre, but as you turn around, you are already in process of finding your way again.

"Evil" seen as attachment to misaligned behaviours or as expression of misalignment is thus not an inherent or permanent thing or state. It is in fact purely illusory in its ultimate nature because it is simply the lack of light, of love, and of alignment with centre and with Source. Our true nature is not illusory...it is the ultimate reality. You live in darkness when that's all you know, and when you see light, you now know what light is, and how darkness is no longer real or present. In the same way, who you are at core is a direct aspect of Source and you are real...not illusory. Material existence is temporal (finite) but it is still very real. It is only misalignment that reveals itself to be illusory...so we simply need to turn back, or return, to our centres, and to align our lives with our awakened heart centres so that we can live in full expression of who we are

We may live and act in ways that are misaligned until we align ourselves with our centre, our heart centre. With Source. With the Love that Is. But this does not reflect who we are at core, at centre. What it reflects is that we are not yet aware of who we are at core. In the same way that darkness is simply the absence of light, "evil" is simply the absence of right-alignment and of love. These things have no ultimate nature but rather exist to us in various ways within our material, finite existence to point us to what is real and to who we really are.

Peace & blessings
7L
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and become themselves despite all opposition.

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  #4  
Old 01-06-2018, 09:28 PM
Lorelyen
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I never cease to be amazed by some of your posts, 7luminaries.

pax luxque tecum.

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  #5  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:29 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
I never cease to be amazed by some of your posts, 7luminaries.

pax luxque tecum.





Peace & light to you too Lorelyen!
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2018, 12:42 AM
Rah nam Rah nam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minxoto
I write this in this section because it's not just about christianity but involves also tarot.

In tarot the devil is known for focusing on the material.

We use the expression "possessed by the devil". It sounds horrible - like we are full of evil, but it's only referring to people and their possessions .

I own my computer. That makes me the devil. It's possessed by me.

Jesus Christ did also own things. He was not naked and had money. He was also the devil. His clothes and money were possessed by the devil.

But Jesus was a good person. And so am I. That's how the devil can be good.




It's not so much what you own, but your attachments to those material things.

How do you feel if something is not there tomorrow, or is taken from you?

To me the "devil" is a metaphor for distortion in the field, which we create.
Without distortions, there would be no continuation in creation.

We came from unity and balance and created polarities, in order to advance consciousness. This is what it's all about.
Enjoy playing the game.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2018, 02:10 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah nam
It's not so much what you own, but your attachments to those material things.

How do you feel if something is not there tomorrow, or is taken from you?

To me the "devil" is a metaphor for distortion in the field, which we create.
Without distortions, there would be no continuation in creation.

We came from unity and balance and created polarities, in order to advance consciousness. This is what it's all about.
Enjoy playing the game.

.... and desire to acquire to own.

Truly love the question asked. Imagine how one feels now, will be felt later. Of course there is no proof yet since it hasn't happened.
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  #8  
Old 04-06-2018, 12:56 AM
eliana israel eliana israel is offline
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very interesting perspectives.

I do believe too much power is given to a being lower than absolute evil of the divine by calling that being the Devil. Someone lower than absolute evil of the Divine would love to be called the Devil.


However, I wouldn't go as far as to say Im the devil because I have a computer. There's a bit of an imbalance there, IMO.

The tarot, could be saying, lower vibrational entities (whatever you wish to call them), focus on the material world because they are not allowed in the spiritual world. Like mainstream media, governments, etc....all focus on the physical and the power of having "abundance and riches" in the material....so they can basically use an "innocent" person to travel the spiritual realms.
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  #9  
Old 04-06-2018, 06:16 PM
Raziel Raziel is offline
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The term Devil is a very primitive one.

It's an explanation of the reason for "the bad" - yet sometimes there is no reason.

As a species we problem solve & feel most comfortable having answers to questions we have about the universe even if we invent them ourselves.

If a mountain Lion attacked me or a loved one the shock, aggression & feeling of powerlessness I would be presented with would obviously warrant a reaction - I would label the lion an evil beast.

If I survived I would need to slay the beast so that it could never happen again.

This happens in everyday life constantly - our need to slay our beasts.

Problem is that perhaps it was our own fault that we were attacked or we were unaware of the nature of our surroundings. We might have been doomed from the start due to circumstances beyond our control.

Things are as they are - how we deal with them & how we learn is almost more important than the events themselves.

I am perhaps the devil to something that misunderstands me & perhaps I am in context & need to be aware of myself & how I effect others.

The "devil" is not "good" necessarily: but is certainly a teacher ... although the lessons can be extremely harsh ones unfortunately.

~

I step away from this site often for clarity, each time I return the same old posters weave a more convoluted tale of the way that the universe works yet there is no real change or development in the things spoken of.

Why?

Perhaps because their Devil - their explanations of the universe are essentially forever chasing rainbows because the honest answers scare them far more than any Devil they might invent?
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2018, 06:48 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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The darkness is nothing more than the shadow of the light. "Own no possessions that none may own you;"
this is a Zen Buddhist koan. What we own, owns us, because what we own demands our time, attention,
and resources. I have downsized my life many times and got rid of possessions, and it felt so good to do so.
A lack of possessions simplifies our life.

As far as The Devil in Tarot, it represents delusion, which may be caused by outward appearances; including
attachment to those appearances. However, in Tarot The Devil is also seen as God inverted; as spirit and
matter are both aspects of the One Thing. The Devil is as much our teacher as anything else.

It is one thing to acknowledge the illusion and another to be deluded by the illusion. Nonetheless, the path to
heaven usually passes through hell, a hell that is part of the awakening process. There is no "devil" if one
means an evil, malicious, independent personality opposed to God.

But there is a "devil" if we understand the universal power behind this physical creation, and how appearances
can delude us. A delusion that can put us in bondage. Although bondage can help us better appreciate freedom.
All forms have definite limitations and all forms release energy. Thus, the process of bondage and liberation
from bondage are constantly at work.
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