Practice

[Jyotir]

Hi Moondance,

Originally Posted by Moondance

Yes. Perhaps the word ‘practice’ has too many connotations to be useful at the subtle end of this. ‘Reorientation’ is a better descriptor of what is going on. A ‘coming round’ to this ever-fresh living truth...

Or that the word 'practice' has "too many connotations" precisely because of the very richness of viable possibility within it ... that 'practice' is the deliberately attempted consistency, continuity, or constancy of that re-orientation...which could likewise, also apply to concentration, intensification, acceleration, purification, etc. They all qualify as that re-orientation 'of sorts' - none of them mutually exclusive in principle.


~ J

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Whether one is correctly picking up the quality of the experience of another can never be known. You may believe you are but will never know whether you are for you are not inside them having the experience.

I might be able to express this a bit better after some thought, but here is a sketch:

When you are in resonance with another person (if I am using this expression correctly), you are both like neutral & open - "spatial tuning forks”.

You feel empathy towards each other, which comes with an ability to feel/sense the emotions of the other person you are with.

When thus you are tuned into each other’s presences and a thought crosses your mind, and then the other person vocalizes that very same thought which just crossed your mind – you have got beginnings of mental telepathy going.


But within the above expressed ^ ... there is still a subtle duality-barrier there.

In shared presence/oneness experienced with someone that dual barrier is removed and you experience the other person directly within.

Yet this is not a claustrophobic situation, but rather like a Space/Emptiness allowing this by opening up and expanding.

Very Enchanting Openness to Emptiness - you both share in and are totally Transparent to (maybe one could say).

It is also Unconditional Love that just is, without there being a giver nor a receiver to it, therefore it is an utterly free and open situation that doesn’t lead to emotional nor mental attachment, dependency (nor co-dependency) – which in general, people seem to express and want as “Love”.

Within that Non-Dual Unconditional Love – you cannot validate yourself / attach labels (credentials) to your self as a “loving person” or "spiritual person".

*

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by sentient

I might be able to express this a bit better after some thought, but here is a sketch:

When you are in resonance with another person (if I am using this expression correctly), you are both like neutral & open - "spatial tuning forks”.

You feel empathy towards each other, which comes with an ability to feel/sense the emotions of the other person you are with.

When thus you are tuned into each other’s presences and a thought crosses your mind, and then the other person vocalizes that very same thought which just crossed your mind – you have got beginnings of mental telepathy going.


But within the above expressed ^ ... there is still a subtle duality-barrier there.

In shared presence/oneness experienced with someone that dual barrier is removed and you experience the other person directly within.

Yet this is not a claustrophobic situation, but rather like a Space/Emptiness allowing this by opening up and expanding.

Very Enchanting Openness to Emptiness - you both share in and are totally Transparent to (maybe one could say).

It is also Unconditional Love that just is, without there being a giver nor a receiver to it, therefore it is an utterly free and open situation that doesn’t lead to emotional nor mental attachment, dependency (nor co-dependency) – which in general, people seem to express and want as “Love”.

Within that Non-Dual Unconditional Love – you cannot validate yourself / attach labels (credentials) to your self as a “loving person” or "spiritual person".

*

YOU may be experiencing all that but it doesn't mean you are in thier skin experiencing what they are experiencing with thier brain, mind, body, and nervous system.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Iamit

YOU may be experiencing all that but it doesn't mean you are in thier skin experiencing what they are experiencing with thier brain, mind, body, and nervous system.

You only talk about form, but you ignore space.

In the previous sketch I wrote – it is as if ones awareness had shifted to All-Accommodating, All-Pervasive Space.
It is as if the Space between subject and object is now your awareness and you, your brain, mind, body, and nervous system - a sounding board to it.
Which is why I like the Hourglass Nebula as an image of a shared presence/oneness experience with someone:
https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...-stocktrek.jpg

In one’s practice one can experiment shifting one’s awareness as if now seeing the world from that neutral all-accommodating space point of view.
Hence “you”, your form becomes only a part of that shared space.

If one is able to see the world from the perspective of space, - one might notice how our attention is so conditioned to focus on form only that it totally ignores space as an equal part of perception.
http://spiritual-artwork.org/wp-cont...a-on-Space.jpg

*

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by sentient

You only talk about form, but you ignore space.

In the previous sketch I wrote – it is as if ones awareness had shifted to All-Accommodating, All-Pervasive Space.
It is as if the Space between subject and object is now your awareness and you, your brain, mind, body, and nervous system - a sounding board to it.
Which is why I like the Hourglass Nebula as an image of a shared presence/oneness experience with someone:
https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...-stocktrek.jpg

In one’s practice one can experiment shifting one’s awareness as if now seeing the world from that neutral all-accommodating space point of view.
Hence “you”, your form becomes only a part of that shared space.

If one is able to see the world from the perspective of space, - one might notice how our attention is so conditioned to focus on form only that it totally ignores space as an equal part of perception.
http://spiritual-artwork.org/wp-cont...a-on-Space.jpg

*

The Great Prajna-Paramita Heart Sutra

Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, practicing deep Prajna Paramita,

clearly saw that all five skandhas are empty, transforming anguish and distress.

Shariputra, form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form;

form is exactly emptiness, emptiness exactly form;

sensation, perception, mental reaction, consciousness are also like this.

Sha-riputra, all things are essentially empty-- not born, not destroyed;

not stained, not pure; without loss, without gain.

Therefore in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, perception, mental reaction, consciousness;

no eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind,

no color, sound, smell, taste, touch, object of thought;

no seeing and so on to no thinking;

no ignorance and also no ending of ignorance,

and so on to no old age and death,

and also no ending of old age and death;

no anguish, cause of anguish, cessation, path;

no wisdom and no attainment. Since there is nothing to attain,

the Bodhisattva lives by Prajna Paramita,

with no hindrance in the mind; no hindrance and therefore no fear;

far beyond delusive thinking, right here is Nirvana.

All Buddhas of past, present, and future live by Prajna Paramita

attaining Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.

Therefore know that Prajna Paramita

is the great sacred mantra, the great vivid mantra,

the unsurpassed mantra, the supreme mantra,

which completely removes all anguish.

This is truth not mere formality.

Therefore set forth the Prajna Paramita mantra,

set forth this mantra and proclaim:

Gate gate paragate parasamgate Bodhi sva-ha-!

http://www.ciolek.com/wwwvlpages/zen...ras.html#HEART

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by sentient

You only talk about form, but you ignore space.

In the previous sketch I wrote – it is as if ones awareness had shifted to All-Accommodating, All-Pervasive Space.
It is as if the Space between subject and object is now your awareness and you, your brain, mind, body, and nervous system - a sounding board to it.
Which is why I like the Hourglass Nebula as an image of a shared presence/oneness experience with someone:
https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...-stocktrek.jpg

In one’s practice one can experiment shifting one’s awareness as if now seeing the world from that neutral all-accommodating space point of view.
Hence “you”, your form becomes only a part of that shared space.

If one is able to see the world from the perspective of space, - one might notice how our attention is so conditioned to focus on form only that it totally ignores space as an equal part of perception.
http://spiritual-artwork.org/wp-cont...a-on-Space.jpg

*

You speak of space as though it was beyond the dream. Where is that:)

[sentient]

Nisargadatta:

Just realise that you are dreaming a dream you call the world

Originally Posted by Iamit

You speak of space as though it was beyond the dream. Where is that:)

Does a ‘man’ identifying with his mind ever realize that what he calls ‘Reality’ is but a Dream?

One’s self-identity as mind draws a very clear boundary line between what is me and not me and then expects the ‘outside-of-me-world’ (the territory) what he calls ‘Reality’ to be the same as its mind created map.

So I proposed to start with the most simple and the most basic practice, that instead of identifying with the mind (map) one identifies with space, regarding all space (inner and outer) as Sacred.

One can feel inner space, the original purity and neutrality of it, and this is all experimental, but it might produce some insights as the boundary between inner and outer space cannot be defined so clearly.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Yes. Perhaps the word ‘practice’ has too many connotations to be useful at the subtle end of this. ‘Reorientation’ is a better descriptor of what is going on. A ‘coming round’ to this ever-fresh living truth...

I think it's pretty simple in principle because if one is interested in truth they want to see it as is. That implies not trying to make it as you want it to be. This is non-duality section, so we have the context of there being no 'doer', so the former practice is the relevant one here. Hence the saying 'there is nothing to be done', though, in so far as the saying is true, it isn't an excuse for complacency. On the contrary.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by sentient

Nisargadatta:


Does a ‘man’ identifying with his mind ever realize that what he calls ‘Reality’ is but a Dream?

One’s self-identity as mind draws a very clear boundary line between what is me and not me and then expects the ‘outside-of-me-world’ (the territory) what he calls ‘Reality’ to be the same as its mind created map.

So I proposed to start with the most simple and the most basic practice, that instead of identifying with the mind (map) one identifies with space, regarding all space (inner and outer) as Sacred.

One can feel inner space, the original purity and neutrality of it, and this is all experimental, but it might produce some insights as the boundary between inner and outer space cannot be defined so clearly.

"Does a ‘man’ identifying with his mind ever realize that what he calls ‘Reality’ is but a Dream?"



You try and limit the mind which may well be unlimited in its capability. It may be the mechanism which dreams the whole of the manifestation.

My guess is that any attempt to limit the mind will fail. It is far to clever to be under...mind. So best just let it do its thing.

:)

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think it's pretty simple in principle because if one is interested in truth they want to see it as is. That implies not trying to make it as you want it to be. This is non-duality section, so we have the context of there being no 'doer', so the former practice is the relevant one here. Hence the saying 'there is nothing to be done', though, in so far as the saying is true, it isn't an excuse for complacency. On the contrary.

Hi Gem

I’m not sure that the ‘doer’ question is relevant here.

In sentient organisms there appears to be the innate tendency/drive towards survival, continuity and freedom. When this drive manifests as the spiritual quest, our apparent choices will, in many cases, lead to a sense of opening up to life's wider spectrum. Along the way this inclination enables us to engage in activities (practices) which facilitate the shedding of many types of constricting conditioning - we are gravitationally pulled towards a sense of greater understanding, sensitivity and freedom. But nowhere in this is there the suggestion of an inherently existing, separate doer - not even in our most ‘ego driven’ doings.