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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #91  
Old 24-06-2018, 04:43 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badcopyinc
1. I love you guys. Shivani I agree none of us know anything. I worked hard to know as little as I do now. This whole thread reminds me of another post where I said we’re all in the amazing theme park designed by god/us and everyone is busy in the office trying to figure out why and how the theme park was made and how it works. I’d much rather be doing 20mph on the water slide! Not arguing on why the water goes down the slide. And who went down the slide the best..

2. I feel like we would all have more fun if we joined a group Vitual Reality Game. Then argue about what’s real and not real in the virtual reality. We could also compare who is further to leaving that virtual reality and who can control it better. Much like fish arguing about what water is as if they weren’t swimming in it.

3. “The very desire to seek spiritual enlightenment is in fact nothing but the grasping tendency of the ego itself, and thus the very search for enlightenment prevents it. The 'perfect practice' is therefore not to search for enlightenment but to inquire into the motive for seeking itself. You obviously seek in order to avoid the present, and yet the present alone holds the answer: to seek forever is to miss the point forever. You always aready are enlightened Spirit, and therefore to seek Spirit is simply to deny Spirit”. ~Ken Wiber
I tried this once playing Simcity 4...

Watch me exercise my absolute Godly Powers and terraform all the land...crush mountains...make oceans...look at me make tornadoes, earthquakes...oooh, I can even demolish entire civilizations using giant robots, dinosaurs or an alien invasion... isn't this cool...hey...where are you all going my loyal subjects?...please stay...I built houses for you..
I gave you water, power and even a football stadium...come baaaack...please...oh man, why isn't the bubonic plague on the list of ways I get to wipe you all of the face of my beautiful town? Whaaat? no more Simoleons left in the bank? You gotta be kidding me!

Playing God is boring...oh yeah, I'm looking at you stupid Sim...after you read dozens of cooking books, you still order take away pizza and manage to burn your house down because you can't light the barbecue properly... Sheesh..
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  #92  
Old 24-06-2018, 09:59 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday
Haha. Greendale, When i said 'you' i meant 'we', sorry for the confusion. I really dont know about how awake you are.

I dont know which questions i'm avoiding, please ask them again if you Will.

My signature is one of my beliefs. I know very little. The things i do think i know (with my limited, subjective knowledge) i like To share with other People. Beliefs are and experience are all we Can share when talking about spiritual Topics, that is what i'm doing. Though i dont know, how that makes a difference. Your post was An attack on me personally, it didnt really do Much difference conversationwise.
If you think it was an attack on you I do apologise, it's not something I do intentionally. As far as I was aware all I was doing was pointing out a contradiction in your argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday
You mean am i saying i am spiritually awake like Jequs (as i see him. I believe you are debating whether he actually exists] Or Buddha?

To Answer your question (as i have Answered before), no i dont believe i'm enlightened Or as awake as a Buddha would be.

Though we are Still debating everywhere what enlightenment actually is. When i speak of enlightenment i speak of someone who has realized it's just a Dream (not intellectually) and sees behind the beliefs. I am not like that.
If ever an emoticon was needed for a huge sigh of relief, this is it.


I am not saying that you are as Spiritually awake as Jesus or Buddha because I don't have a meter to do any readings, so anything I could say on that score would be pretty much meaningless. What I am saying is that if you resonate with what they're saying it means you aren't so much of a gazillion miles away from them as you think you are. What's chopping you off at the feet is that you're making comparisons and your own perceptions that you are not on their level aren't doing you any favours. You don't believe you are as awake as Buddha, but did Buddha proclaim himself as enlightened? I'm not a Buddha expert but as far as I'm aware her didn't. He used the word, he taught people how to become enlightened but did he say he was?



Not debating whether Jesus actually existed or not, what did he actually say? Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was a Nazorean Essene. The Essene were Gnostics, and basically Gnosis is knowing without knowing how you know - which is what you've already mentioned. Much of what Jesus taught were Gnostic teachings, essentially 'God within' as opposed to 'God without', as in on high/in heaven. The Christians co-opted the idea of Jesus and what's left is a mish-mash of two belief systems - sometimes God is 'in here' and sometimes he's 'up there'. That's if he actually existed at all, he could have been stolen from ancient Egyptian Gnostics or stolen from Zoroaster's Mithras.


Buddha actually did exist and there is history to confirm the legend to say he was real at least.


But while you're talking about Jesus and Buddha you're completely missing what they said. Neither said it's OK to compare and both said you/we/everybody have/has the capacity to become so much more. Jesus never used the word 'enlightened' as such but he did say that we were all children of God or phrases of that ilk. But did you also know that Jesus is reputed to have spent time with Buddha during the sixteen years he 'went missing'? You don't believe you're enlightened but both Jesus and Buddha would disagree with you.



In your reality enlightenment is part of a Universal Truth as you've said yourself, in my reality enlightenment is anything anyone wants it to be and like Spirituality it means different things to different people. The truth is, if you did a 'What is enlightenment?' thread that would be the consensus of opinion because that's what's happened time and again in the past. If you want to prove it either way, by all means go ahead and create one.


The consciousness of dreams is more real than conscious reality, believe it or not. When you understand how your brain hallucinates your conscious reality and that it's all created by your mind everything changes and of course you've already said that enlightenment is not driven by the mind. You see, so many people use reason, logic and knowledge to come to the conclusion that they're enlightened.


Perhaps you're not as Spiritually awake as Jesus or Buddha. I can only take your word for that. However! You are awake to what you are awake to, and that's more than I've seen some who have declared themselves as awake has been able to muster. Beyond the comparisons you have your insights.



Only Buddha can be as enlightened as Buddha and only Jesus can have the Christ consciousness, but only Tuesday can experience the Universe as only Tuesday can. Honour your Path, because that's what Buddha and Jesus would do. And me. Your reality is as real as you need it to be.
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  #93  
Old 24-06-2018, 10:10 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badcopyinc
1. I love you guys. Shivani I agree none of us know anything. I worked hard to know as little as I do now. This whole thread reminds me of another post where I said we’re all in the amazing theme park designed by god/us and everyone is busy in the office trying to figure out why and how the theme park was made and how it works. I’d much rather be doing 20mph on the water slide! Not arguing on why the water goes down the slide. And who went down the slide the best..
I used to teach all bout how an aircraft flies to air cadets, but all that was forgotten about when a five-times world champion microlight pilot threw us around the sky on a butt-clenching, teeth-gnashing trip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badcopyinc
2. I feel like we would all have more fun if we joined a group Vitual Reality Game. Then argue about what’s real and not real in the virtual reality. We could also compare who is further to leaving that virtual reality and who can control it better. Much like fish arguing about what water is as if they weren’t swimming in it.
I'd rather have a few post-game beers with you and take the mickey out of you about that big ugly boss taking you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badcopyinc
3. “The very desire to seek spiritual enlightenment is in fact nothing but the grasping tendency of the ego itself, and thus the very search for enlightenment prevents it. The 'perfect practice' is therefore not to search for enlightenment but to inquire into the motive for seeking itself. You obviously seek in order to avoid the present, and yet the present alone holds the answer: to seek forever is to miss the point forever. You always aready are enlightened Spirit, and therefore to seek Spirit is simply to deny Spirit”. ~Ken Wiber
There you go, that there.
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  #94  
Old 24-06-2018, 10:39 PM
Tuesday Tuesday is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 318
 
The attack-comment wasnt ment for you, Greendale.
Greendale, your words contradicting. First you experience relief when i say i'm not enlightened. Then You say i am enlightened To my own ends.

However. As i said before, no point of discussion this further. You believe there is no such thing as enlightenment, that everyone already is And everyone has their own path. I agree with the Last, but would say (as i have said before because we are now mostly repeating ourselves with different words.) that there are certain steps that everyone takes on the path, even though everyone experiences them differently. With the rest i disagree. I'm also saying that there is no end, what Buddha did might not be my path.

Could we just agree To disagree? I wont probably be answering you To this Topic unless you Bring something Else To the table.
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  #95  
Old 25-06-2018, 03:13 AM
Emm Emm is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,319
 
A few years ago I had an out of body experience. The weird thing about this experience was it made me question who the "I" that I call myself was because after it, it seemed like there was two of "me". The first obviously is the one who we call the egoic self, the personality of who I am that relates to the world around me. The other was the one who looked down from above at the scene below and viewed both the physical me and one other person who I'd just been introduced to...who at that moment was also me.

Now its very difficult to explain who I was at that moment during the OBE. It felt a bit like a melding of the two of us because the physical me was aware that I'd just exited the realms of time and space but at the same time this other me was quiet, no emotion, no thought, nothing, just present but I was more myself at that moment than I have ever been.

After a lot of mindful exploration and inner contemplation on the matter above I've since come to the conclusion that this little me, the ego if you like, is being watched, without judgement but with interest. Why I don't know. To relate that with the OP I think that all our thoughts, judgements, and beliefs are in the realm of a false or alternate reality to where we actually reside. Nothing we do here matters in the greater scheme of things of who we are in a greater reality. Of course it seems to matter here, to our egoic self, if it didn't there would be no sense of drive moving us on from one experience to another. This reality as we experience it acts like an hallucination, keeps you transfixed on specific inner beliefs until eventually an event we call crisis comes along to break the cycle (the cycle being Karma) and wake us up out of a repetition of events. Not an Awakening in the spiritual sense more but more like changing gears. These crises move us along another path of thought.

Now, getting back to my thoughts on my OBE, if the two aspects of self are actually one but two ends of a spectrum could be one answer but I don't really know that for sure. But its one that I'm currently believing as my truth right now. With that in mind I feel that "awakening" could be described as the following...

Imagine a camera. Looking through the lense of that camera we have the ability to zoom in or out depending on what we particularly want to get a look at. Our view is limited though depending on the technology of what you have at present. Awakening is a bit like that, but instead of looking outward we focus inward. The more we focus and widen the lense inward the more we
"see", feel and receive. I think its all about focus, what we are aware of and how much...the wider we stretch our inner lense the easier we connect with that broader, larger end of the Self.

It does always begin though with the need to be curious and in my case that began with an event that I couldn't explain (not the OBE) it shook my world upsidedown. The curiosity is the driving force and you do receive information and it comes in a variety of ways. But there comes a point where in the end when you realise theres no more need to go looking, that where you are is perfect as it is. And that to me is Awake because you have a sense of connection with your inner self ...it may not be as loud and clear as our physical reality but a thread of connection is definitely there.

The journey doens't end there but now there is a faith if you like that when the time is right more will be added, I just have to remain awake enough to not miss it and that means staying present.

So, that's my take on Awakening. Awareness is staying present with your whole being and not just with the mind. Enlightenment I'm sure isn't a permanent thing...rather you have glimpses of it when your are aligned with that greater part of you. You know. But like I said, its fleeting but some knowledge stays with you if you're aware enough to grasp it, ground it.

This has been my experience so far and am now going into my 6th decade of life. Its a mixture of wanting to know and having inexplicable happenings, glimpses into an unknown that keep you following the breadcrumbs, through questioning...until it doesn't. I'm sure most on here would agree with that, even Greenslade, I'm sure he wasn't born wise and knowledgeable lol.

So my advice to those starting out, keep asking the questions, its all baby steps, eventually if the need is strong enough we get what we ask for and wisdom begins to peak through. There are no mistakes, all paths lead to the same destination...just some take longer than others but as my experience showed me, time is an illusion anyway...its whether we enjoy the journey that counts.
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  #96  
Old 25-06-2018, 09:12 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday
The attack-comment wasnt ment for you, Greendale.
Greendale, your words contradicting. First you experience relief when i say i'm not enlightened. Then You say i am enlightened To my own ends.

However. As i said before, no point of discussion this further. You believe there is no such thing as enlightenment, that everyone already is And everyone has their own path. I agree with the Last, but would say (as i have said before because we are now mostly repeating ourselves with different words.) that there are certain steps that everyone takes on the path, even though everyone experiences them differently. With the rest i disagree. I'm also saying that there is no end, what Buddha did might not be my path.

Could we just agree To disagree? I wont probably be answering you To this Topic unless you Bring something Else To the table.
It was relief because as far as I was concerned we were getting to the heart of the matter, not because you said you were not enlightened so no contradiction there. I also said that both Buddha and Jesus would call you enlightened to some degree and probably tell you that comparing doesn't help. If you do that all you'll ever do is come up short because there is always someone to define as more enlightened than you.


If you really want to be enlightened, look to your reasons because they'll tell you everything you need to know. Other than that, Live your Life and stop fretting over it.
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  #97  
Old 25-06-2018, 01:35 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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A couple of points on the topics.

First I would say there are degrees or levels of progression within spirituality.

You can talk about the number of chakras opened, ones progress along the Bhumis, levels of consciousness, all sorts of levels of progression within many, many traditions.

One can also get to a level of knowing, when one knows how open someone is. Not a 3rd eye seeing, but a knowing.

As for the last comment I would say that Buddha and Jesus shared the same realization. Emptiness of Universal Mind.

Lastly, I would say Tuesday is a very advanced being. Someone who has moved from just talking about stuff to being able to directly introduce others to that stuff by sharing her being.

I guess you could say that is another way of gauging someone's advancement per the topic. Directly impacting another's being compared to just talking or it all being within ones own mind.
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  #98  
Old 25-06-2018, 04:04 PM
Badcopyinc
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I tried this once playing Simcity 4...

Watch me exercise my absolute Godly Powers and terraform all the land...crush mountains...make oceans...look at me make tornadoes, earthquakes...oooh, I can even demolish entire civilizations using giant robots, dinosaurs or an alien invasion... isn't this cool...hey...where are you all going my loyal subjects?...please stay...I built houses for you..
I gave you water, power and even a football stadium...come baaaack...please...oh man, why isn't the bubonic plague on the list of ways I get to wipe you all of the face of my beautiful town? Whaaat? no more Simoleons left in the bank? You gotta be kidding me!

Playing God is boring...oh yeah, I'm looking at you stupid Sim...after you read dozens of cooking books, you still order take away pizza and manage to burn your house down because you can't light the barbecue properly... Sheesh..

So am i more enlightened because i moved on from Sim city years ago and graduated to Sid Meyer's Civilization?
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