Advice Around Talking to TF's (now confirmed) Ex-Wife?

[Sugar-n-Spice]

Originally Posted by RedBasket

And thank you for reminding me not to jump to the conclusion he is a narcissist.

I was more referring to the conclusion that he does not care about you. Much of what you've written here still speaks differently. She knew MANY details about you...think about that. If a man does not care about you, why on earth would he talk to his wife about anything he is feeling for you or anything about you. Even a narcissist wouldn't likely endure this risk on someone they don't care about because the narcissistic injury that comes from a failed marriage is not worth it. Even she is not comfortable with the idea that you may possibly feel a strong connection to her husband/ex-husband (not sure which side is true). She still loves him and wants him and definitely does not have your best interest at heart where he is concerned...you have to keep honest perspective on this no matter how wonderful she is. For now the conflicting details are definitely red flags which I am sure will resolve as you start to talk to him more, but be careful with your heart regarding yourself and regarding him...it is not worth to change your whole construct based on information from someone who is competing for him.

[Sugar-n-Spice]

Originally Posted by intj123

why would you want to talk to her?
I wouldn't if I were you.

What was the cause of you saying this intj123? Not that i disagree or am judging you, but interested in the reasoning behind your saying this.

[selene]

Redbasket, I need to read more about your story to give you a more detailed advice, but the conversation you had with his wife caught my eye in an alarming way.

I am not sure if your TF is a narcissist and if his behavior is due to that or something else... if he's moved in with someone else and if he's cheated on his wife on multiple occasions, it seems like he is. And she is the victim of severe emotional abuse. However... her trying to ask in such indirect way what happened between the two of you and revealing what she knows about you (through her husband or through an extended internet search, or even a private investigator) sounds to me a little too inappropriate. Perhaps I am missing something about the relationship you and she share, but it just doesn't seem right... not even the fact that she revealed she knows so much about you.

I understand she is a woman in pain but she seems like at this point her outlet is not healthy and I'd caution against further talking with her. As sugar-n-spice noted, she probably does not have the best interest of you in mind, even as she puts you in the center of attention.

Also: if your TF did talk to her about you and that's how she knows, I wonder what his motives were? It is a strong indication that he cares, but on the other hand, there is a breach of trust there, if he revealed personal info of yours... many emotionally abusive men do talk one woman up in front of another just to bring them against each other. :/. It's a tactic. A horrible one and unfortunately one that works.

Whatever the case, to you dear RedBasket. I hope it all works out.

[RedBasket]

Originally Posted by Blissful

You know Red, I'm wondering if he's doing it 'for your good'... coz that's what me and BB have been doing back and forth. The silent treatment is a way we are, especially when trying not to trigger each other over and over... I am sure you will be able to understand better with your inner guidance.

Thank you so much for this insight. Yes, this does resonate when I take my ego out of the equation. When we were in contact he was always quick to reply or explain a delay "I was at my kid's concert ... I had no cell service at my job site until I just got back now." And when things got more intense, he said "I got your email yesterday and I didn't respond ... my mind is a mess and I just need to focus on work these days." It was the last tentatively personal email I sent to him given the boundary he set - I had offered to share bullet points of the 5 tips my therapist shared with me about the "lasching out" experiences during separation when he said he was upset with himself for lasching out at the people he loved during his separation. We had both felt bewildered by the random aggression coming out of us. I told him I knew he was seeing his own counselor and didn't mean to be intrusive by offering up this info.

I hear what you say when even a "hello" can trigger. How on earth are you able to work in the same building with him? I don't know how I could get anything productive done in that situation. You are a powerful personal processor of life!

[RedBasket]

Alyanna and Sugar-n-Spice,

Thank you for reminding me not to trust her too easily. Yes, I have felt she has messed with me in the past (facebook stalking) but could explain it because of course this powerful connection seemed to be affecting both of our marriages. I'd have done the same.

And yes, his behavior could also fall into line with a predator of narcissistic abuse. I sometimes wondered if I was in on a "long con" and then thought that is just my fear and what it feels like when your walls finally start coming down. In my heart I think he is true and good, but subterfuge is very confusing.

For the record, she is not suggesting he has had affairs in the past or that he met this women before they split up. He doesn't live with her but spends some time at her place, according to the wife (previously I wrote "moved in" instead of "moved on"). I honestly assumed he was sometimes staying at the place for which he was a caretaker when the owner was gone, plus living at his work studio, so I don't know if this is "the girlfriend" or not, but the town mentioned by both is the same town. During the initial separation, this was his living situation ... maybe it turned into romance, maybe it always was, maybe the wife is wrong and there is only a friendship there. Who knows. Also, the details she knew were about my parents being narcissist (he told me hers were too so I'm not surprised he shared this with her) and just general stuff about tv and movie genres I like, things that both our kids liked, types of work projects I get, etc. So it was not a creepy type of personal info, but it was a surprise she shared it readily. Or he could have shared it as triangulation, but he never spoke poorly of her to me nor did he do that "my wife doesn't understand me" stuff.

I will back away from them both. She knows I won't be inviting her to this event, I never said otherwise, so I'll stick with that plan. I probably should unfriend her on facebook, honestly, as my husband suggested I should a long time ago. I almost suggested we do it last night and wish I had when our conversation ended on good terms.

[Sugar-n-Spice]

Originally Posted by RedBasket

In my heart I think he is true and good

Follow your heart

[Sugar-n-Spice]

I want to be clear where his wife is concerned that saying she does not have your best interest at heart does not necessarily mean she has your worst interest at heart either, nor do I think she is a bad person. She has a connection to him and I think because you recognise this it is why you want to proceed on amicable terms and talk to her, and I am sure you will both have great pleasure in speaking with each other and may find many common interests. The time right now, however, is a hurtful and tender time, so you have to proceed with caution over your heart. You have endured enough hurt already and now is not the time to create hurt by creating a construct out of perceived conflicts and ideas. It might be best to proceed like an observer..do not bare the core of your soul, keep it light, keep it friendly, take note of the red flags...you may even want to write them down, but keep him separate. Your dealings with him are your dealings with him. You longed for him to return, he is coming back, don't let anything poison that. And don't despise the soul work of the universe, who knows the purpose of others in his life although it may come as shock. Yes of course we want to be safe and we take measures to protect ourselves so mark your red flags, but protect him too. Try to keep him separate from these conversations and psychoanalysis, it may hurt your interactions with him. And definitely don't bear down on your childhood. You survived all of that and were victoriously healed and recovered. You are the master of this situation. Be the observer.

[RedBasket]

Originally Posted by Sugar-n-Spice

I want to be clear where his wife is concerned that saying she does not have your best interest at heart does not necessarily mean she has your worst interest at heart either, nor do I think she is a bad person. She has a connection to him and I think because you recognise this it is why you want to proceed on amicable terms and talk to her, and I am sure you will both have great pleasure in speaking with each other and may find many common interests. The time right now, however, is a hurtful and tender time, so you have to proceed with caution over your heart. You have endured enough hurt already and now is not the time to create hurt by creating a construct out of perceived conflicts and ideas. It might be best to proceed like an observer..do not bare the core of your soul, keep it light, keep it friendly, take note of the red flags...you may even want to write them down, but keep him separate. Your dealings with him are your dealings with him. You longed for him to return, he is coming back, don't let anything poison that. And don't despise the soul work of the universe, who knows the purpose of others in his life although it may come as shock. Yes of course we want to be safe and we take measures to protect ourselves so mark your red flags, but protect him too. Try to keep him separate from these conversations and psychoanalysis, it may hurt your interactions with him. And definitely don't bear down on your childhood. You survived all of that and were victoriously healed and recovered. You are the master of this situation. Be the observer.

S-N-S,
Thank you so much for this level-headed wisdom. It was actually a HUGE sync to read your post for I had arrived at this same conclusion moments before I read it.

It is a big shift for me to let go of black-and-white thinking in which I get confused to the place you describe above ... I've found that shift in my heart right now. In the past, I've had many anxious, reactionary posts on "is s/he messing with me?" and "oh I care so much!" "what does this mean!!!???"

I keep checking out of the forum to interact with my daughter on our lazy day at home and I'm able to let go of my mind and connect to her right away when she wants to engage and ask a question or cuddle up with hot chocolate and our cat on my bed.

"Life is rich in both its complexity and simplicity" I thought when she smiled at me and left the room to play on her video game.

We are simultaneously scared, and complex, seeking moments of security and trust. No matter what we do the universe will unfold. I won't try to resist it, I'll know that it will all be ok. My highest self will know how and when to trust and love.

She and I have different motives now but we can see where we overlap. A part of her is able to be warm, kind, magnanimous with me. A part of me is able to be empathetic, supportive, and present with her. We both care about our kid and each other's kid. That is real. And there are other complexities too. I won't try to untangle them and figure them out. Same with him. To pathologize/psychoanalyze someone is to see them as symptom-lists in my head instead of as vibrations in my heart.

The universe will unfold and the wands in motion will land.

[bluebird21]

Hi Red, I want to be able to give you spot on intuitive advice but am for some reason feeling a lot of emotional pain right now thus my intuition feels clouded. So I'll say this - You vibrate at a high frequency. That sounds odd :) but it's very true. I feel a recognition of you and an understanding of your deep sincerity and authenticity on your path and have great trust in your guidance. You have strong inner knowing and all you really need to do is tap into that. You mentioned questioning your mental health. I have my own mental health issues (seasonal depression) and find that mental health issues are common in those going through a spiritual awakening. It allows for us to dive deeper into neurosis and shadow than we otherwise would, cleaning out ALL the gunk. I experience a deep inner knowing that my "twin flame" and I share this love. Not knowing in the twin flame theory but simply in our love. I also doubt all the time that he loves me. How could he possibly love me? I think. But deep down I can FEEL the Love is shared. However, and this is a big however, though he is I believe the highest spiritual connection I have to another person, this doesn't mean I want to be in a relationship with him. We must get clear on what we want in a partner. For me it's bravery and continually saying YES to going deeper into intimacy, great emotional maturity, commitment to us, kindness and respect. I realized that just because he is my twin flame doesn't mean he will be able to give me these things. I honestly think he will at one point, but he's going to have to show me. As I know you know, we can love someone so deeply, and still choose to not be with them so that we can be with ourselves. Why want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with us? What I feel your focus needs to be now is loving yourself as if you are your twin flame. Falling in love with yourself. We will always love ours twins so don't try to block out the love. Alternately, let that love be. Feel it, but start making you your #1 priority because you are a very special woman who deserves to be with someone who wants you and only you. When we get into an empowered place like this, we attract our twin flames. That's the nature of the connection - we are drawn to each other when we are in our POWER and repelled when we aren't. You are on the path and are being guided. You have such strong inner knowing beyond the fears and doubts. Above all, listen to this knowing and love yourself first. ❤️

[bluebird21]

Also a book recommendation for you - When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron.