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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > General Religion

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  #31  
Old 26-01-2017, 01:17 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
The difference between religion and the New Age is that religion does not say its all up to me and I should just get on with it.
That's semantics. I can take your opening statement and insert Religion for New Age:

Religion points the finger at me and says, "Give you life to Jesus and all your troubles will be healed." Religion says I am 100% responsible for ending up in either heaven or hell.

It's the same thing. Exactly.

This is my last post because it's clear you're not interested in a depth conversation here. It seems you want to hang on to the notion that getting annoyed is okay, that getting annoyed at New Age and not Religion is valid, and that your annoyance didn't in fact fuel all the biased and even hateful -- "The New Age is such a disgusting trend" -- anti-New Age rhetoric in this thread. Nothing more to say as you seem content in your perspectives.
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:15 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I have the answer to this now.

The whole "It's up to you, so deal with it" means:

"I disagree with you, what you are saying and what you are all about, but I'm not going to be confrontational or get into any kind of argument over it, all I can say is "it's up to you, so deal with it" so please don't place any of your bee ess on me in future, thanks".

With religion, you have more people who believe in exactly the same thing you do, so this is less likely to be an issue than with New Age spirituality.

This is it, in a nutshell.
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  #33  
Old 09-02-2017, 05:25 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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One more thing, Honza. It may come as a rude shock/awakening, but if you place so much credence in religion over spirituality as a way of life, then join a religion and become fully engaged and enmeshed within it. Religions have little time for all these 'new-age' beliefs, so you'll find more people there who will agree with you, support you and comfort you through all this.

The good thing about religion is the whole 'safety in numbers' aspect of it. Also, within the religious framework, there are teachings and doctrines that help one come to terms with this whole new-age thing and you can fall back upon it rather comfortably and if anybody disagrees, you have people to turn to who will say 'let them do what they want...God gave us 'free will' and so, it is all up to THEM and 'going to hell' becomes their choice.'

It gets to the stage where one must 'choose sides' and not continue to sit on the fence about these issues...and of course, you'll get 'spiritual people' who will call you 'dogmatic' and 'sheep mentality' and 'part of the problem' and even worse things, but what do you know? your religion has an answer for these kinds of people too! It may be 'stock-in-trade' but it lets them know who you are and where you stand.

I prefer religion over spirituality myself, because religions are established and based upon centuries old traditions and I am NOT just talking about Christianity here, but Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and anything else that has more people besides 'just me' treading on the path. When more people are treading the same path you are, there is understanding and the recognition of shared experiences.

So, if you think religion is better than spirituality, pour your whole heart and soul into your chosen religion, adopt their tenets and dogmas and be happy and satisfied. I am going to be doing exactly the same thing. All the best, my dear.
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  #34  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:00 AM
Baile Baile is offline
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If you hate people, you will hate their __________. You will hate everything they do and think and believe. That's how hate manifests. That is hate's legacy.

I prefer the mystical wisdom path. I started out on the religious path, then switched because I found more use in mysticism. I don't hate religion, I think it works for many people. Just not me. And I could point out that mystical wisdom is also established, and has been around since the Egyptians at least. But you see, the person I say that to would have to stop hating long enough to be open to that idea. And hate doesn't allow people to be open. So there's no point in continuing the dialogue. Which is why I say to people who want to hate new age and anything else really: Yes, it is up to you to deal with your hate. Because it's your hate that is the problem and not, in this case, new age.
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  #35  
Old 09-02-2017, 10:34 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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I think of religion as 'organised spiritual society' with its own set of rules and regulations. Those who 'hate' usually disagree with them for whatever reason.

I'm not saying that atrocities haven't been committed in the name of religion, but that is fanaticism and to condemn a whole religion due to the rise of a fanatical element, does it no justice whatsoever.

One may even go as far as to say 'the dogma/scriptures/rules are fanatical in themselves' but this is why religions are thus secular and orthodox. They have intolerance because yes, religion is intolerant full stop. It is to protect the sanctity of its teachings against external influence and corruption and so the whole teachings are lost.

This is it, this is why and nothing more.
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  #36  
Old 09-02-2017, 04:57 PM
Molearner Molearner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Necromancer
I think of religion as 'organised spiritual society' with its own set of rules and regulations. Those who 'hate' usually disagree with them for whatever reason.

I'm not saying that atrocities haven't been committed in the name of religion, but that is fanaticism and to condemn a whole religion due to the rise of a fanatical element, does it no justice whatsoever.

One may even go as far as to say 'the dogma/scriptures/rules are fanatical in themselves' but this is why religions are thus secular and orthodox. They have intolerance because yes, religion is intolerant full stop. It is to protect the sanctity of its teachings against external influence and corruption and so the whole teachings are lost.

This is it, this is why and nothing more.

The Necromancer,

This is pretty much spot on......:) There is a huge Catch 22 element to any of these discussions in these forums. It is this: People are determined to be tempted to argue/discuss from the perspective of either/or......never acknowledging the overlap......that area that includes a large segment of the population that are both religious and spiritual. It is ridiculous to assert that the two(religion and spirituality) are mutually exclusive. There is a long tradition of Christian mystics, saints, Jesus, disciples, apostles, etc. that by any measure must be acknowledged as spiritual people. If people are determined to identify themselves solely as one or the other I would contend that it is more likely that religious people will come to embrace spirituality than spiritual people will come to embrace religion.

Thus from my perspective I might surmise that 'spiritual' people are more dogmatic. "He drew a circle that shut me out--heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But love and I had the wit to win: We drew a circle and took him in!". In short, a religion is likely to embrace the stranger. Spiritual persons tend to embrace their individual freedom, preferring isolation to organization. This allows them to some extent to avoid being stereotyped but, on the other hand, seems to preclude them from making a visible contribution to society. There is no denying that religion has made a valuable contribution to society....witness the establishment of schools, hospitals, charities, outreach, etc. The trap of spirituality is that it can unwittingly can easily become focused on 'me'.......which speaks of egotism and, oddly enough, the very thing that is anathema to genuine spirituality. There is no need for me to document the pitfalls of religion......this is done quite well by these forums on a daily basis....:) And I would be the last to say that they are not warranted. This is simply because the standards of religion as defined by scripture are impossibly high(Love one another as I have loved you and love your neighbor as yourself.......judge not lest ye be judged, etc.) Every adherent of a religion will fall short of these standards and can, thus, be labeled as a hypocrite. But at least an informed religious person knows what the standard(the goal) is. Spirituality adherents, because they eschew organization, lack consensus of belief and therefore are in no danger of being viewed as hypocrites. They have chosen a safe position and makes it easier for them to maintain their ego and sense of self worth.
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  #37  
Old 09-02-2017, 11:30 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Yes definitely. There is a huge overlap between religion/spirituality.
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The Humility, The Pride and The Humiliation.
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  #38  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:22 PM
ceidauilyc ceidauilyc is offline
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Book1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
You are asking for help or guidance of some kind. I haven't been of much help to you in the past, so I am a bit humbled by that remark. It makes me realize I could have been more helpful, without the need to be antagonistic.

But you see Honza, that's it. That's life. Nobody has all the answers, we're all just trying our best. We're all learning. And you just taught me something. Thank you.
So true. Because life gives you the answers just as it gives you the questions.
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