Balance and perfection.

[Nowayout]

All falls like rain
That waters the soil
Seeds the earth
And look
It grows

This growth
Is all encompassing
But dead
Without the rain
And the earth

I am a flower
I need to be watered
Or I wither
And die
Returning to

The soil.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

So did the all just wake up with me? I doubt it.

otoh,
since it doesn't even make sense that anything exists
(except that in hindsite we can tell it does)
then you never really know which way is up lol!

[Nowayout]

Can't you see a direction?

I know it's beyond comprehension as to why it even all begins... but there and again we grow.

There is a path, undeniably realized in me.

But who's intelligence am I drawn too?

I'm a bleeding idiot at times...

[FallingLeaves]

well these days I mostly what I hear
'whatever I want to believe is good enough
and must therefore be true'

What is the point
of talking of directions
when everyone wants to lay claim to their own fantasies as if it were the truth?

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

All is the ground of all things visible and invisible. I can live with that.

There is more to the "all" let's say, God... than we know.

God being the ground of all things can still eliminate creation, I don't have that power being a created soul. Make a new heaven and a new earth?

I could go back to that place I was before I got here, which was a timeless nothing.

This is the clue I get that I'm created. My soul could be eternal, but I'm guessing on that too.

In truth, I have no memory of past lives.

So did the all just wake up with me? I doubt it.

From a nondual perspective Oneness is the only reality and "All" that manifests is an illusion of separation where there is no separation whatsoever including all gods, their prophets, and saviours.

We can see why that idea ends the feeling of disconnection but it does not resonate with every seeker. It would seem that it depends on the character. Some are successful at solving problems and would tend to select a path and practice while others, less successful and/or dissollusioned withe paths and practise, become attracted to the idea that all is already completely connected just as it already is. One is quicker but not more or less appropriate than the other.

[Nowayout]

Originally Posted by Iamit

From a nondual perspective Oneness is the only reality and "All" that manifests is an illusion of separation where there is no separation whatsoever including all gods, their prophets, and saviours.

We can see why that idea ends the feeling of disconnection but it does not resonate with every seeker. It would seem that it depends on the character. Some are successful at solving problems and would tend to select a path and practice while others, less successful and/or dissollusioned withe paths and practise, become attracted to the idea that all is already completely connected just as it already is. One is quicker but not more or less appropriate than the other.

OK, so your saying oneness is the ground of all reality, everything visible: "manifestations.... including our notion of Gods, the prophets, and saviours" in your words are just that, manifestations of the one.

Well, there we go, as the world turns. I'm just all eyes these days, the way I see it nothing is simply defined.

There might be a greater power that has a plan. Duality, non-duality, it's all going to be revealed. I hope... after all this build up.

My goodness...

[Nowayout]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

well these days I mostly what I hear
'whatever I want to believe is good enough
and must therefore be true'

What is the point
of talking of directions
when everyone wants to lay claim to their own fantasies as if it were the truth?

The truth for me is found in simplicity.

Dogma, truth, life, and death, duality or what have us.

Simplify your life, go back to the basics. You're alive for now.

I'm not trying to make any sweeping claims, this way or that, but life is like balancing a pin on your head. You can't see it but you know it's on your head because it's pointy and hurts when you get it moving around to much. Digs in...

Enjoy and stay focused on what's happening....to you.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

OK, so your saying oneness is the ground of all reality, everything visible: "manifestations.... including our notion of Gods, the prophets, and saviours" in your words are just that, manifestations of the one.

Well, there we go, as the world turns. I'm just all eyes these days, the way I see it nothing is simply defined.

There might be a greater power that has a plan. Duality, non-duality, it's all going to be revealed. I hope... after all this build up.

My goodness...

The point of transcendence is to eliminate all conditions that stand in the way of ending the feeling of disconnection. In the end all conditions must
be transcended for that ending to arise. That transcendence means that whatever you now see as a condition to that ending, does not have to be met.

The only position I know of that offers total transcendence is that whatever already is does not have to be overcome for the purpose of total connection because all is already one. In that sense "whatever already is" includes not realizing this or anything else for it must already be Oneness not realizing !!!

All else that is on offer in the spiritual supermarket requires achieving something so is not totally transcendental. Whatever those requirements are have to be transcended at some point so why not deselect such paths at the outset?:). The answer I expect is that characters vary and some have a sense of lack and like the idea of something to do that offers the hope of correcting that lack. I expect the end of that process is to realize that there was no lack in the first place but have to go through the process of trying to correct that non existent lack in order to get there.

[Titortastic]

Perhaps its more of an all-encompassing oneness rather than an individual oneness perhaps it is difficult to grasp because we assume that everyone and everything else is also suffering while we are one. There is quite the dissonance here for me.

Humans are not the only sufferers. Animals, plants, insects all show signs of spirit. How can I truly be at peace when I know at this moment animals are suffering (usually at the hands of humans), people are suffering, life is suffering? Especially when the cruelty is unbearable.

It is interesting the Yin Yang symbol resides inside of a complete circle. I suppose the answer may be that duality is a manifestation of singularity. Must those who are innocent suffer? Is their suffering necessary? Those who suffer and pass at the hands of fate; was that divine duality at work? Is their suffering a form of Karma, and if so would it not serve the spirit well to know of karmas existence. A cow for instance being slaughtered to feed us barbarians: how would the cow learn from its suffering. How are we to determine that this is evil and such the opposite is good in the eyes of a machine like karma.

I struggle with duality and oneness every day. I hope that one day I will understand and be at peace.

Suppose the divine orders nature is actually inherent chaos that needs to be put back together again.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Titortastic

Perhaps its more of an all-encompassing oneness rather than an individual oneness perhaps it is difficult to grasp because we assume that everyone and everything else is also suffering while we are one. There is quite the dissonance here for me.

Humans are not the only sufferers. Animals, plants, insects all show signs of spirit. How can I truly be at peace when I know at this moment animals are suffering (usually at the hands of humans), people are suffering, life is suffering? Especially when the cruelty is unbearable.

It is interesting the Yin Yang symbol resides inside of a complete circle. I suppose the answer may be that duality is a manifestation of singularity. Must those who are innocent suffer? Is their suffering necessary? Those who suffer and pass at the hands of fate; was that divine duality at work? Is their suffering a form of Karma, and if so would it not serve the spirit well to know of karmas existence. A cow for instance being slaughtered to feed us barbarians: how would the cow learn from its suffering. How are we to determine that this is evil and such the opposite is good in the eyes of a machine like karma.

I struggle with duality and oneness every day. I hope that one day I will understand and be at peace.

Suppose the divine orders nature is actually inherent chaos that needs to be put back together again.

If peace is defined as no longer feeling disconnected then that peace can come from including all the things we dislike as also Oneness manifest. If we dont understand why Oneness appears as those things, even that lack of understanding does not separate us from Oneness, for it must be Oneness not understanding!!!