How To Find A Teacher (Guru)

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

A common discussion here, invariably introducing a few subsequently established camps:

1) the (authentic) master is a necessary or a very significant expedient.
2) I am my own master
3) you don’t need a master (see #2)

All representing different needs at different times in the broad scheme of evolution and therefore all valid per individual exigency; the OP relating to #1. Nevertheless there are some general trends.



Yes, it’s as simple as that. Also @ Miss H's post, same deal.

Create the inner necessity for God…which is the next step and response to God’s Grace in providing awakening as a recognized opportunity. One then becomes God’s necessity by responding to that call. On a practical level this means that the master will find you - even though it appears that the inverse is the case, but that is the ego perception, e.g., “I did it”. But key is that a sincere response is necessary in order to continue the dialogue that real spiritual practice is - otherwise there is no need for a master (you're doing fine without them) - and therefore conversely, that the master has no need for you too!

Why make it complicated? Well…

Many do not take the offer after awakening - or at least not immediately - often engaging in an intervening process of varied duration, choosing to remain comfortably within a post-awakened dream-limbo of intellectual complacency and self-satisfaction which may last for lifetimes. It’s like staying in bed after the alarm goes off.

They interpose all kinds of mental/intellectual reasoning as pre-qualifications and rationales for not pursuing a concentrated and accelerated spiritual life represented by the necessity of a teacher - social, moral, ethical, legal, conceptual conditions, restrictions, prohibitions, limitations - primarily because still in the (unconscious) thrall of the sovereignty of ego which is the source of all those qualifications, and will not submit to such a scheme, seen as too much of a sacrifice of those conditional expectations and demands.

The problem is that by pulling back-on the covers, by clutching tightly to present conditions, we cannot have access to and enter into what is essentially unconditional - a daunting hurdle for the inherently conditional ego-mind.

So reasoned conditions and rationales are employed to justify essentially what is a fear of relinquishing control, and the risk of accessing the presently unknown, in defence of, and deference to what is well-known. That includes a fear of that scary lack of control that a master (to the ego) seems to embody and represent as exclusive or dominant principle.

Of course that fear of phantoms foolishly misses the real import of the relationship - , i.e., that the (true authentic) master is really a proxy and fully operative symbol for, facilitator and mediator of the individual’s highest self which supersedes the false little-self of ego-mind presently running the show. As such, the master effectively represents God in this process that unfortunately although these rationales and preconditions all make perfect logical reasonable sense, they actually contravene the process, thus becoming barriers to approaching that which is inherently unconditional. Therefore, “I don’t need a master, because___,____,____,___.”

Meanwhile, the master isn’t going anywhere. They’re just waiting for a sincere and coherent response to this challenge of opportunity offered, and for many this is a transition that often takes much time and often requires all kinds of trials, tribulations, boredom, self-induced confusion, imbalances, resistance, and frustration - as part of an oscillation that eventually leads to the required orientation, a narrowing of focus and importantly, surrender to the unconditional.

~ J

Very astute, observant and well articulated, as always.

The part in bold especially resonates with myself personally...about how complacent and compliant we tend to become after the initial awakening experience...waiting for "something else to happen" without either becoming receptive to it or putting in the necessary work to "make it happen" because we are still riding on the coat-tails of a previous experience...even after a long time of it having faded away.

Nobody can understand the spiritual process or growth of another and often, those who say "I already AM it, so I don't need to do/be/go anywhere" makes no sense to me because either they are "self realized" or they are not and far be it for me to be the judge of it.

From my own personal experience, I realise that I have become stuck within complacency and it has gone on for countless lifetimes... occasionally I get a break from it and I will cherish every moment of it...but making this the "rule" rather than the "exception" is something I need to work on myself either with or without a teacher...for the Master can only lead a horse to water, no matter how thirsty the horse may be.

There is the Guru and there is the Disciple....and disciple comes from one word... discipline!

Self discipline is also a concept that has gone by the wayside sometime during the past century...it is usually reserved for elite athletes, concert musicians and those who are specialists in the field...it doesn't seem to apply to spirituality now as much as it used to...and it used to be pretty much a "mandatory requirement" which always leads me to wonder...what has changed? Have the teachings changed to suit the current environment, or has the nature of mankind changed so much in 50 years or so, that whatever all the great teachers have said for centuries no longer applies and why does it not all of a sudden?

That will be all for today, until the stress on the forum's server is alleviated because I have been trying to post on here all day and having no luck...the universe is telling me to take a break for a few days.

[jro5139]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

First, find your own core beliefs and values surrounding anything you hold to be true within your own heart (notice I did not say "belief"). =)

Next, do your homework and look into all of those who hold similar beliefs to you or whose teachings "strike a deep chord" within, or an institution you would like to learn more about...even consider membership.

I tend to look at opposing viewpoints, even after I think I believe something, I tend to look at the opposing viewpoints to it to see if I'm missing something. Maybe that's the natural detective in me. Even after I establish a belief, I keep questioning it. But I tend to agree with others who have said that beliefs and belief systems can be limiting. I think they do serve a purpose for a time and we can learn from them, but eventually can become limiting.
Which is probably why I have no one belief system that I follow. I tend to study anything and everything that is interesting to me and that I can get my hands on. Then I take bits and pieces from here and there that resonate with me based on my experiences and combine them in a way that makes sense to me.

I have found a few teachers that I resonate with and like, but I would call none of them a "guru." All ones that I have found online, as where I live there is not much spirituality. I have found a few that I agree with a lot, but none that I agree with 100%. But I doubt that too many or anyone has it a 100% right, if they did they probably wouldn't be here. Again, I take things where I resonate and mix it all up until it makes sense to me.

There's times when looking at opposing viewpoints gets me confused, which makes me search even more until I eventually find an answer that I can resonate with.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by jro5139

I tend to look at opposing viewpoints, even after I think I believe something, I tend to look at the opposing viewpoints to it to see if I'm missing something. Maybe that's the natural detective in me. Even after I establish a belief, I keep questioning it. But I tend to agree with others who have said that beliefs and belief systems can be limiting. I think they do serve a purpose for a time and we can learn from them, but eventually can become limiting.
Which is probably why I have no one belief system that I follow. I tend to study anything and everything that is interesting to me and that I can get my hands on. Then I take bits and pieces from here and there that resonate with me based on my experiences and combine them in a way that makes sense to me.

I have found a few teachers that I resonate with and like, but I would call none of them a "guru." All ones that I have found online, as where I live there is not much spirituality. I have found a few that I agree with a lot, but none that I agree with 100%. But I doubt that too many or anyone has it a 100% right, if they did they probably wouldn't be here. Again, I take things where I resonate and mix it all up until it makes sense to me.

There's times when looking at opposing viewpoints gets me confused, which makes me search even more until I eventually find an answer that I can resonate with.

While my mind remains fresh on this..(it just came as a "download").

That word "Belief" gets such a bad rap in the Duality stakes. It is conditioned belief that a "belief" must be false because it is somehow associated with "not being real/True" when all "belief" means is that it cannot be objectively proven outside oneself and to those 'Denizens of the Scientific Revolution' which occured during those past 50 years, anything which science cannot quantity of qualify is only a "belief"...but it is a-ok to have "beliefs" and call them "theories" in Science...I mean, "Theoretical Physics" theorizes there are more than 4 Dimensions while the New Age practitioner just "believes" it.

This is not really speaking directly to you, but I tend to spontaneously "channel" stuff without warning...even mid sentence sometimes...

The work Gregg Braden, Dr. Joe Dispenza, Bruce Lipton, Nassim Haramein, Dan Winter, Rupert Sheldrake..etc..(let me just drop a few names of My "teachers who are not Gurus") shows that it is the case of beliefs creating reality simply due to the fact that the subconscious mind does not know what is "real" and what is "fake" and it is the subconscious mind which directs the flow of the conscious mind towards one-pointed focus and human motivations.

It is our beliefs about self and other which can lead to longevity by lengthening the telomeres on a chromosomes and beliefs can also activate dormant (junk) DNA) as well as being able to have access to codes our Pleaidean ancestors put in there...and all of that.

Originally Posted by Altair

It's not for everyone. I think it takes a certain personality type to actually see someone as a ''guru''. While I can accept good advice from others, that is not the same as actually surrendering to someone else. That's something that I won't do, not even if it could reveal to me the biggest secret of the universe. I do not bow before a human, be it a guru, a president, or a king. In my country we also have a narrow distance between leaders and followers, and nobody is free from criticism. I wouldn't want to have it any other way.

I would question and challenge and if anyone tells me to abstain from all of that, and that questioning is ''ego'' than that's a huge red flag for me. Humanity improves things by asking questions and experimentation. If they (''guru's'') share useful practices and ethics than we can of course learn from that.

LOL

Sad but true, as an attitude for many in today’s day and age. Good luck with that spiritual thing though.

JL

Originally Posted by Starman

I have been around a lot of genuine gurus, also called Sat-Gurus, greatly expanded consciousness individuals who radiated love and light, and who could transform you with their presence alone.

I have experienced this, and would have never believed it myself, had I not seen it for myself (without having heard of such Ones, or know what to expect)

I feel fortunate that I was never burdened with theory, expectations or ideas, and instead led through the heart of experience.

That said, I have heard it said that people also need to be on a similar wavelength.

JL

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Indeed, I followed a guru back in the 1970s/1980s, with a strong emphasis on long hours of meditation. Devotion to the guru plus the spiritual companionship of other disciples and the sense of shared purpose pushed me to go far beyond anything I might have managed on my own. I have followed my own path since, but I have never had the same level of commitment and discipline as in those days. There are times when we are helped by an external guide, there are times when we have to rely on our inner guide.

I see a difference between being a teacher and being a guru, although people may flock round a teacher and consider that teacher as their guru. For me, if you are sitting in a hall with hundreds of others listening to someone talk about spirituality, then that person is a teacher. Whether it be Rajneesh, hugging Amma, Ravi Shankar, or any other well-known teacher, if they are not able to guide the devotee to spiritual realisation then they are a teacher, not a guru. While there are a lot of teachers, there seems to be very few genuine gurus.

So what is a guru? I do not consider a guru as only needed for those new to meditation. I suggest that a true guru is someone who has attained spiritual realisation and can guide others to that same state, understanding the processes and pitfalls along the journey. This implies a close relationship between the guru and the disciple. The guru knows where the disciple is at, and guides him or her accordingly. The disciple trusts the guru and obeys the guru's instructions. Nowadays this is not a popular idea. Too many teachers have been discovered to have feet of clay, especially when it comes to the opposite sex. The idea of obedience is associated with being brainwashed. The idea of surrender to the guru is alien to many who wish to assert their independence. But it is this illusory independence which is holding people back from realisation. Eventually the disciple attains the same state as the guru, and may then become a guru to others. But such gurus are rare.

Anyway, while we are reminiscing on teachers of the last century, let us not forget Neem Karoli Baba and Anandamayi Ma.

Peace.

One of my old girl friends was a devotee of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho). She spent considerable amount of time in the USA and India.

As time passed, our relationship started to faltered when one group got orders from one famous religious Asian leader to honor me with a plague signed by him. Being I was out of the country, I told her she could receive the award for me. She thought she would be able to give a speech - that did not happen. She thought because I could not receive the plague, they would give it to her - that did not also happen. She was furious.

I guess her teachings did not help her.

As for me, I normally learn on my own.... Oh well.

[Aknaton]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Great thread Shivani!
This might interest some people:?

Before D. Trump became president - I read part of a book of his.
I learned an imp thing - Go to the one in charge.
Don't ask for a discount from someone that has no authority to give it...
Go to the top person...don't even waste time.
That being said..
Whether exact or not the point is made in the (possible) story of Vivekananda searching for a guru.
Many of us have heard diff versions.
So he asked every guru 1 question,
" Have you seen God and can you show me God?"
I won't go on with the story...but, Ramakrishna, sweeping the floor -
was the only one that said, "Yes".

If I want to learn surgery - I want to be taught by the best surgeon.
Period.

I don't want a mantra,
I don't want to learn diets and rituals, tho they are nice. I don't want nice.

My 2 cents on the subject.

Another 2 cents: SURE, you can get off the train in Paris all by yourself and even have a map of the city.
BUT, how much better to have someone that lives in Paris to guide you -
to the shortcuts and past the bad areas of town...and even better
into the exclusive Clubs! See?

Wow!!!!!!!

Through asking the Creator, I moved from a Theosophist to help open my muladhara to a Kriya yogi who helped open swadhistana to a touch a little Manipur and an ex-Catholic Priest to help me make practical use of these small and common attainments and a highly skilled Christian Prophet to move past the subtle into the Celestial and God is still guiding me onwards. It can only be an upward movement if you get God involved.

O Creator, let me have that exclusive club pass... please please please!!!

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

LOL
Sad but true, as an attitude for many in today’s day and age. Good luck with that spiritual thing though.
JL

Thank you, Janielee. Good luck to you as well with your spirituality!

IMO the grovelling before guru's is little different to giving one's power away - and placing one's faith in - presidents, kings, queens, etc. We can observe the same authoritarianism coming from a leader, and a mass of followers who think they cannot hope to achieve anything except through the benevolent leader. These are signs of humanity's immaturity. But give it some time, and progress and economic development will always help more people free themselves from such control.

Not everyone can have the same perspective though. Some people grow up in very traditionalist families where much authority is placed on central figures, at home, in church/temple, and everywhere else. It appears to me that it is hard for many of them to break free of such structures and hierarchies, but many praise and respect to those who can achieve it and carve their own path in life.

I think it's more useful to think of ''guru's'' in the same way we think of anyone who shares an beneficial practice or ethics, like a psychologist, philosopher, or just any random person we may meet! View them as equals, as human beings. There's no need to sanctify any human being.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

Thank you, Janielee. Good luck to you as well with your spirituality!

IMO the grovelling before guru's is little different to giving one's power away - and placing one's faith in - presidents, kings, queens, etc. We can observe the same authoritarianism coming from a leader, and a mass of followers who think they cannot hope to achieve anything except through the benevolent leader. These are signs of humanity's immaturity. But give it some time, and progress and economic development will always help more people free themselves from such control.

Not everyone can have the same perspective though. Some people grow up in very traditionalist families where much authority is placed on central figures, at home, in church/temple, and everywhere else. It appears to me that it is hard for many of them to break free of such structures and hierarchies, but many praise and respect to those who can achieve it and carve their own path in life.

I think it's more useful to think of ''guru's'' in the same way we think of anyone who shares an beneficial practice or ethics, like a psychologist, philosopher, or just any random person we may meet! View them as equals, as human beings. There's no need to sanctify any human being.

.....all in your personal opinion, of course.

I was raised within the "Westernized tradition" and I hated it!
I chose the exact opposite because I was a rebel WITH a cause..

There is always one of us in every crowd. LOL

By the way, I would LOVE to give all of my power away... problem is that nobody wants it. *sigh*

[FairyCrystal]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

This is also true for me. I don't seem to have any problems in that regard and all it takes, is being ready to reach out and make the connection...however, if people are anything like me, they will put it on their "to do" list and it stays there for some time.

About Gurus and famous people...

Nice it works that way for you too :)
I rarely search when I am not going to do something with it. It does go up and down, in the 'down' periods I'm usually digesting. When I get to another 'up' I turn back to my teachers or I'm open to finding something and then stumble upon someone new who has something to say that I need at that moment for my growth.
I have two teachers that I tend to turn back to, even with months or years in between. But these are really good and wise and at a very high level.

I'm not interested in famous people, I'm interested in people who have wisdom and something I need for my growth. Logically speaking these people have some sort of fame, otherwise it gets real difficult to find them. But I've found people in the past who were far from famous, only had a website, and Spirit guided me to them so I could get in touch.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I read a while ago where Steve Jobs had an Indian Guru...Steve Jobs' Guru was Haidakhan Babaji. What an amazing person! Both of them were...and Haidakhan Babaji would be "my type of Guru"...it is a shame that all the best people (with exception) lead a very, very bright but brief existence here.

There are a few teachers on YouTube that I respect deeply...I like Igor Kufayev, Sally Kempton, Swami Sarvapriyananda, Pema Chodron, Gabor Mate...many others out there who talk the good talk and walk the good walk and all I need to do is learn how to drop the concept of a "digital barrier" which seems to separate people under the premise of bringing them closer together because it seems that my dial for
....

I'm not interested in Indian / Hinduism. Weird names I cannot even pronounce and the things don't resonate with me either. Usually everything comes down to the same thing, although not always, and I prefer to go for things and people that are rooted in my own culture, or closer to it.
So I don't follow anything Hindy / Indian and doubt I ever will. I'm quite the die-hard (European) pagan :) At least that resonates with me as it's my own roots.
Not saying there's something wrong with it, I'm saying it's not for me.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

....for those who say "I got this myself", what part of them doesn't believe they require spiritual instruction...could that be their ego?

I think it can be ego, yes, but also a so called 'beginner thing', not really getting things yet. Maybe they think it's needy or failure to ask for help from someone who's further.
I find it more important to know when I can do it myself and when I can't. I see nothing wrong with that either, I feel it's good! Everyone has their own specialty, and that's great! It means others can benefit from that, and that you can offer your own unique specialty to others.
Plus, getting clarity on something for yourself tends to be more difficult as you're too involved, biased even.
That's my take.