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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #11  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:51 AM
ocean breeze ocean breeze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Here's a recent example I can relate. After my recent experience I had a burning passion to do something. One of my thoughts was to start a meditation meetup group. I was advised of several pitfalls, and especially for someone who so recently had a shift in worldview. The gentlemen didn't come out and say what concerned him directly, but by way of anecdote. I got the gist of what he was saying and that night both before and after meditation I did some introspection and sure enough, part of my motivation wasn't exactly selfless. There was a tinge of pride behind it. The impact on my life was I ditched the idea.


Doesn't answer much but i guess you wanted to share that. Maybe pride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy


Over the last eight years I started and stopped my meditation practice a good half dozen times. The contrast in quality of being between the on and off periods is stark. The stillness of mind during the on periods is not only more peaceful and relaxing but also more productive. Without all the incessant chatter there's so much more clarity, insight and creativity.

A good analogy is that of a lake. Toss a stone into a still lake and one can see the ripples even from the other shore. Toss the same stone into a turbulent lake and the ripples can't be seen at all.


Anyway and for me that's where the rubber meets the road.

Well yeah, we all have such moments with or without meditating. Running is when i experience most of my meditative moments. Hiking as well.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:26 AM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean breeze
Doesn't answer much but i guess you wanted to share that. Maybe pride.

LOL! Let me explain... No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

Ego, not wanting to be left out, was piggy-backing on an earnest and altruistic motivation. If I went forward it would have done its best to corrupt it.

The Buddhist priest related how power relationships, such as that between organizer and attendees, can result in delusions of grandeur because of adulation, leading to taking advantage of the situation. It can get to one's head, if you will, and if one's motivations aren't pure. He said I could Google Buddhist monks and sexual scandals. Ego can be quite obvious but also very subtle and sneaky. His main point was to be ever vigilant.

Aside from that and in reality I'm not nearly qualified to recognize warning signs of issues that can arise within those not suited to the practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean breeze
Well yeah, we all have such moments with or without meditating. Running is when i experience most of my meditative moments. Hiking as well.

True enough. I was an avid solo backpacker years back. Being miles and miles from a trailhead in remote wilderness areas I often found myself absorbed in the moment. For instance crossing a stream with 50 pounds on my back and slippery stones under foot could have very bad outcomes, and trying to drag one's self miles to a trailhead with a broken leg or worse would not be a good thing. LOL!

When I maintain a consistent and daily practice that state of mind is for the most part constant, even under diversity. It's nothing magical, but the result of practice and neuronal plasticity. It's really no different than resistance training for the muscles.


EDIT: To be totally honest some posts feel like a choice between parroting talking points without relating personal experience or relating personal experience at the expense of sounding prideful. For me it feels more honest and potentially impactful to take the latter approach and leave it to the audience to decide where I'm coming from.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2019, 10:27 AM
ocean breeze ocean breeze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
LOL! Let me explain... No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

Ego, not wanting to be left out, was piggy-backing on an earnest and altruistic motivation. If I went forward it would have done its best to corrupt it.


So to you the ego exist and is real. Is this correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Ego can be quite obvious but also very subtle and sneaky. His main point was to be ever vigilant.


Yes. Who decides to become vigilant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Aside from that and in reality I'm not nearly qualified to recognize warning signs of issues that can arise within those not suited to the practice.


There wouldn't be a need to. We have enough teachers and preachers around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy


EDIT: To be totally honest some posts feel like a choice between parroting talking points without relating personal experience or relating personal experience at the expense of sounding prideful. For me it feels more honest and potentially impactful to take the latter approach and leave it to the audience to decide where I'm coming from.

None of that matters. It is understandable to want to jump in and share experiences just to express them. Whether it is warranted or not. Exaggerated or not. Though often its wiser to let the person in question answer for themselves. For the most part i have little interest in stories, real or fake.
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2019, 10:51 AM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean breeze
So to you the ego exist and is real. Is this correct?

Absolutely. In the Freudian model there's the ID (the primitive, the reptilian part of the brain), the Superego (moral conscience and a function of the higher brain) and the Ego moderates/mediates between the two based on the demands and norms of society.

In the sense that's discussed here ego is an out of balance condition where either the Id or Superego exerts too much influence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean breeze
Who decides to become vigilant?

My impression is it's an interplay between awareness and mind. With enough awareness true free will is possible. That is ego is an obvious object of awareness and can gently be let go just like when thoughts arise during meditative practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean breeze
There wouldn't be a need to. We have enough teachers and preachers around here.

In the context I was considering - a meetup group - I would be on my own. Here are two major points of concern.

1 - It's not advisable for persons with mental health challenges to undertake meditative practice outside of professional care or guidance. It's very possible, if not likely, suppressed emotions and memories can be dredged up that the practitioner is in no way prepared to handle.

2 - Dark Night of the Soul.

So getting back to my original point ego could pervert something altruistic for its own purposes and without regard for the potential negative consequences.
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2019, 11:22 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Concerning Dark Night of the Soul...

https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditator...t-of-the-soul/

"The Purpose of Meditation Isn’t Stress Reduction"

"If you practice meditation and contemplation, it’s important to understand this dark stage. Ignorance is not bliss and can even be detrimental to your mental health. Willoughby Britton, a researcher from Brown University’s Department of Psychiatry and Human Behavior, is presently studying the difficulties that frequently arise for practitioners of Buddhist meditation."

This forum is peppered with bad experiences and especially from inexperienced meditators diving into Goenka retreats.

https://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum...p?topic=3525.0

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 07-11-2019 at 12:50 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-11-2019, 12:04 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay.kishan
This is what i think to but here is a confusion.
Then it becomes a 'desire' to stop the mind from chattering, becomes something mind wants to achieve.
Awareness has no desires.

Just recognize that desire for what it is, a product of mind, and gently let it go and without judgment. Just like what one does with any other product of mind while meditating and focusing on an object like breathe, sound or bodily sensation. In other words don't concern yourself with the ends, just work on the means and that's the practice.

Thoughts, emotions and judgments are all products of mind. Nothing more and nothing less and perfectly natural. They will slowly dissolve with more and more practice. That's not to say you will be incapable of them at some point, but you will be in control of them via actual free will.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2019, 03:18 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay.kishan
So, i guess its the first thing we realize when we start to meditate is the "Mind Chatter"

I have been meditating from quite a while and I am so grateful to the God/Creator/Energy for opening this dimension for me, to make me aware of a dimension beyond physical through an awakening. Which is obviously available to all humans, if they are open/sensitive to it.

So, as i have evolved during this process, i have noticed that there is a complete SHIFT in my mind chatter. I am more aware of my thoughts and how they shape our reality and therefore the mind chatter then tries to make it positive.

I was going through some of the videos from J. Krishnamurti (Spiritual Teacher), i realized that ALL THE MIND CHATTER, is nothing but THOUGHT ITSELF.
The one who is trying to stop the thought is the thought itseld. The Observer is hence the observed. The thought itself creates it, then deals with it, and thats how mind works.

So what do you guys think of this ? Has more spiritual development actually increased the mind chatter (due to its constant awareness of whats right and wrong) or has your mind turned more peaceful and silent ?

What do you guys do about the mind chatter, even if its good and atleast you think, its helping you . Should we even stop that ? To see life without Distortion of our mind ?

Are all thoughts, Ego ?
Ego and mind are related, e.g., 'ego-mind'.

Ego is the false objective separative cognition in human beings.

Mind is the energetic attachment to the movement - reactivity - to those apparently separate “things“, e.g., “name and form” that are superficially experienced as divided, including segments of time.

When people meditate, they are attempting to not follow that “chatter”, to ignore that movement, to not energetically respond - either by concentrating entirely on some fixed point of focus/attention, or the opposite, to open and observe that movement with utter detachment.

As the practice of meditation continues, this ability to concentrate and detach becomes increasingly more normal within, and begins to pervade the waking consciousness. The instrumental consciousness is ascending to a higher perspective.

The practice of meditation is really indispensable to spiritual life.

~ J
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2019, 04:49 PM
enaid enaid is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 48
 
Congestion in the mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay.kishan
So, i guess its the first thing we realize when we start to meditate is the "Mind Chatter"

I have been meditating from quite a while and I am so grateful to the God/Creator/Energy for opening this dimension for me, to make me aware of a dimension beyond physical through an awakening. Which is obviously available to all humans, if they are open/sensitive to it.

So, as i have evolved during this process, i have noticed that there is a complete SHIFT in my mind chatter. I am more aware of my thoughts and how they shape our reality and therefore the mind chatter then tries to make it positive.

I was going through some of the videos from J. Krishnamurti (Spiritual Teacher), i realized that ALL THE MIND CHATTER, is nothing but THOUGHT ITSELF.
The one who is trying to stop the thought is the thought itseld. The Observer is hence the observed. The thought itself creates it, then deals with it, and thats how mind works.

So what do you guys think of this ? Has more spiritual development actually increased the mind chatter (due to its constant awareness of whats right and wrong) or has your mind turned more peaceful and silent ?

What do you guys do about the mind chatter, even if its good and atleast you think, its helping you . Should we even stop that ? To see life without Distortion of our mind ?

Are all thoughts, Ego ?

Hi Jay and great topic !

I’m at a place where I simply can’t stand the thoughts that crowd into my head, most of which I don’t even want to be thinking. Meditation for me has always been difficult as I don’t seem to be able to come to any kind of adjustment to this situation. I hear about people who’re able to find a deeper place in themselves and I envy them! The best I can do is keep busy in order to keep the thoughts at bay.
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2019, 05:03 PM
sky sky is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enaid
Hi Jay and great topic !

I’m at a place where I simply can’t stand the thoughts that crowd into my head, most of which I don’t even want to be thinking. Meditation for me has always been difficult as I don’t seem to be able to come to any kind of adjustment to this situation. I hear about people who’re able to find a deeper place in themselves and I envy them! The best I can do is keep busy in order to keep the thoughts at bay.



'keep busy in order to keep the thoughts at bay.'


Enaid have you tried Mindfulness Meditation? I think it may suit you as your doing your ' keeping busy '

You just focus on what your doing



https://tinybuddha.com/blog/mindfuln...e-you-happier/
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2019, 05:13 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
As Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche puts it in one of his instructional talks on mindfulness meditation, give monkey mind a job, but a temporary one, not full time. LOL!

Here's a playlist of some of his most pertinent videos for those interested in meditation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoPU...a&index=2&t=0s
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