Unnecessary forms of suffering and hardship we're better off without

[Ciona]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

emotions are transient, fleeting things, which makes positivity fleeting.

Exactly.

Well, I do hope you experience some positivity that makes you happy, if you haven't yet already.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by Ciona

Exactly.

Well, I do hope you experience some positivity that makes you happy, if you haven't yet already.

Thank you. Positivity is what's important in life because, without it, then all knowledge, life lessons, moments, situations, works of art, people, etc. can be nothing positive in our eyes. That means they would be nothing positive for us. So, positivity is holy, divine, and our ultimate goal in life is to obtain as much of it as we can. The more profound and intense it is, the better. I see no need for someone to struggle much of his life with negativity. I've had very negative, suicidal, miserable experiences throughout my life, and I never needed all that negativity. I would've been much better off having positivity throughout my whole life all day everyday. Even if my mother died right now, I would be much better off not mourning her loss because that would just give me another horrible, negative experience I don't need.

[zastrakoza]

Hi Matt, I for one do not believe in unnecessary suffering. Suffering is the impetus for seeking truth. The idea that suffering is unnecessary is a victim mentality. We would suffer less if we did not make intellectual judgments on what is right or wrong or what is merited. We think we know when we do not.

I, too, was traumatized before birth and suffered much emotional pain as an unwanted child. As such, we can feel many strong negative feelings making judgments on the unfairness of it all. But now, I have come to some maturity and I deeply value that trauma and all the participants that reinforced it.

It was not them that created the situation, but Spirit (some would say that spirit was me and I would not disagree). Because Spirit loved me and knew exactly what it would take to get me to unconditional love. And we are imprinted with that love in a unique way that creates a one of a kind reflection of the whole being.

There is nothing wrong with positivity and I agree with the main point here. What I am trying to add is the expression of authenticity. The way we see things from a positive standpoint is by knowing that all experiences are good for us.

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

Hi Matt, I for one do not believe in unnecessary suffering. Suffering is the impetus for seeking truth. The idea that suffering is unnecessary is a victim mentality. We would suffer less if we did not make intellectual judgments on what is right or wrong or what is merited. We think we know when we do not.

I, too, was traumatized before birth and suffered much emotional pain as an unwanted child. As such, we can feel many strong negative feelings making judgments on the unfairness of it all. But now, I have come to some maturity and I deeply value that trauma and all the participants that reinforced it.

It was not them that created the situation, but Spirit (some would say that spirit was me and I would not disagree). Because Spirit loved me and knew exactly what it would take to get me to unconditional love. And we are imprinted with that love in a unique way that creates a one of a kind reflection of the whole being.

There is nothing wrong with positivity and I agree with the main point here. What I am trying to add is the expression of authenticity. The way we see things from a positive standpoint is by knowing that all experiences are good for us.

What's important in life is a positive state of mind, and positive emotions are the only positive states of mind. That even includes love, since love is a positive emotion/positive state of mind. If suffering is the only way to achieve the most positivity (the most positive emotions), then all that suffering was necessary. But, if there are other ways to achieve the most positivity, then suffering isn't necessary. So, if this whole spiritual journey of our souls undergoing suffering here on Earth has the end result of the most positivity we could possibly obtain, then all that suffering was necessary. But, if our souls could experience the most positivity just from being up in heaven and blissing away for all of eternity, having no suffering, then suffering isn't necessary.

[Ciona]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Thank you.

You are welcome. Quite interestingly, as I'm sure you are already well aware at least to some degree, ALL linear time constructs are limited and fleeting. This includes the ones we create 'inside' ourselves consciously, unconsciously or both (all technically also part of the quantum field); be they positive, negative or neutral, and not only those which are manfiest in the quantum field generally (by whatever means).

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

What's important in life is a positive state of mind, and positive emotions are the only positive states of mind. That even includes love, since love is a positive emotion/positive state of mind. If suffering is the only way to achieve the most positivity (the most positive emotions), then all that suffering was necessary. But, if there are other ways to achieve the most positivity, then suffering isn't necessary. So, if this whole spiritual journey of our souls undergoing suffering here on Earth has the end result of the most positivity we could possibly obtain, then all that suffering was necessary. But, if our souls could experience the most positivity just from being up in heaven and blissing away for all of eternity, having no suffering, then suffering isn't necessary.

Great con-verse-ational presentation and exporation, Matt. A couple of quotes which support the necessary hypothesis:


From Ch.7 of (downloadable) The Bhagavad Gita:

Whatever be the nature of their life, whether it be pure or passionate or ignorant, they are all derived from Me. They are in Me, but I am not in them [the latter assertion is debatable, IMO].

The inhabitants of the world, misled by those natures which the Qualities have engendered, know not that I am higher than them all, and that I do not change. [note: I personally have reason to believe that 'character' of the Essence of Being 'evolves' as a result of ongoing experience(s) like every soul does, but that is a separate issue from what is being discussed here.]

Verily, this Divine Illusion of Phenomenon manifesting itself in the Qualities is difficult to surmount. Only they who devote themselves to Me and to Me alone can accomplish it.

The sinner, the ignorant, the vile, deprived of spiritual perception by the glamour of Illusion, and he who pursues a godless life – none of them shall find Me.

O Arjuna! The righteous who worship Me are grouped by stages: first, they who suffer, next they who desire knowledge, then they who thirst after truth, and lastly they who attain wisdom.

Of all of these, he who has gained wisdom, who meditates on Me without ceasing, devoting himself only to Me, he is the best; for by the wise man I am exceedingly beloved and the wise man, too, is beloved by Me.

Noble-minded are they all, but the wise man I hold as my own Self; for he, remaining always at peace with Me, makes me his final goal.

After many lives, at last the wise man realizes Me as I am. A man so enlightened that he sees God everywhere is very difficult to find.

And from my (downloadable) treatise:

The second point I want to be sure I get across (because it is counterintuitive to those who are still philosophically wrapped up in a body-ego based, and hence physiosocially focused, calculus) is that the pains and losses (etc.) that are suffered and shared in the course of incarnational Life, even as horrific as these will undoubtedly be experienced as being in the course of the apocalypse that is presently unfolding, are not something to be either feared or lamented (not really, that is). It is the very unavoidability of such experience that motivates souls to break out of and jettison the ego‑shells which they would otherwise ‘naturally’ not be inclined to do, because it then becomes unmistakably clear that personal pleasure-maximizing and pain-minimizing schemes and strategies amount to no more than vain attempts to climb and/or carry others up to a higher deck on a sinking physiosocial ‘ship’.

Though self-gratifying physiological and social support systems as well as imaginative projections which lead people to hope and emotionally anticipate that they will, even if not right away, at least experience relief, ease, fulfillment, happiness, etc. in the future may indeed be Love and Joy sustaining up to a point, the fact remains that soulfully encountering and experiencing the kinds of ‘troubles’ that are, in the final analysis, inescapable aspects of being ensconced ‘in’ a physically limited, temporally transient personal body that is subject to frustration, pain, loss, ego‑defeat, death, etc. is necessary for the kind of self‑transcendental ‘i’dentity expansion and psychospiritual growth spoken of in this chapter to be situationally ‘called’ for and stimulated to ‘come’ forth.* A soul’s capacity for psychospiritual fortitude and interpersonal empathy (stemming from cognition and appreciation of the ubiquitousness and transcendency of the Presence and Power of Life Itself), for instance, would never develop otherwise; albeit these are just a couple of a whole host of psychospiritual awareness and adeptitude based capabilities which must be conscientiously directed and devotionally deployed in service of Life Itself for a nodal soul to transcendentally e‧merge from the ‘womb’ of its embryonic other-dependency and infantile selfishness (note: I use the word must here only to state what is functionally necessary for such outcome, not to assert any kind of moralistic ‘should’ in this completely free-choice regard.)

[Footnote*: Here’s a ‘fable’ worth contemplating in the above regard: “God ‘gives’ people every (kind of) thing they could possibly love and enjoy or imagine loving and enjoying and then, one by one, takes these away from them and/or places the possibility of their ‘having’ them (again, in the former case) out of reach, such that all they are then left with (that is, should they then choose to themselves be and continue so) is the Love and Joy they were thereby soulfully introduced to, which Love and Joy is Life Itself!”]