Confusion about The Holy Spirit

[Ariaecheflame]

I'm wondering what your religious background taught you about the holy spirit and also what are your own personal feelings and beliefs?

It is not really a concept which I've ever really understood but when I feel into it - the concept of holy spirit I feel a sense of Grace descending as white light energy through me from the head down into my energy body.
I'd say the energy of the 'God the father' feels expansive...I feel Christ conciousness as a balancing and unifying force in my heart centre and it encourages feelings of compassion and connection...the Holy spirit feels like Grace - it is more personal and inclusive than 'god the father'.

I cannot really remember the specific teachings of my childhood church in this matter as it wasn't frightening enough to stick into my conciousness haha. All I remember is that we didn't subscribe to the trinity until much later after they decided not to have a cult status anymore haha.

I do often wonder if the holy spirit though did used to be something else before westernized religion became hijacked....perhaps we in western society have lost an important aspect of the Holy Spirit and are not being served by the whole picture.

Part of me does wonder about the repressed feminine God aspect... and if the holy spirit explains the feminine pressence or if they are two seperate things.
Even if this was the case I am not certain that it still isn't a bit mixed up - the three distinct yet unified aspects of this particular trinity.


Thanks one and all.
I appreciate the discussion.

[davidmartin]

ah Emerald great question and my favourite topic of all, the Holy Spirit. Can't wait to start responding to this!
My background in Anglican church of England told me zero, nothing about the Holy Spirit. This is a blessing in some ways, as nothing is better than being misled.
I encountered the Holy Spirit quite unexpectedly simply during services in the worship singing along with a praise band. A feeling rose in my chest, a presence. Was it due to inhaling additional oxygen? No, i began to feel this outside of church too. This convinced me a lot more on the reality of God. I came to understand this is the Holy Spirit, associated with peaceful feelings, a fragrance, a joyfulness, a gentleness. A guide too, on what is right and wrong (not that I followed very well, for a long time in the wilderness)

The church was hardly helpful here, a sermon i remember was all about not trusting your feelings, you mean I thought like, not trusting God?
So my own personal feeling is it is a personal feeling
I've come to realise there are wildly differing views of this within the faith, and maybe not everyone experiences it the same way, so that's a caveat to everything I'm saying.
Grace is a good word and connected with the Holy Spirit and Jesus too

Your description of an energy from head to toe is a little different, but that may not mean anything. The feeling of compassion and connection rings true
I just feel it's located within the soul and reaches up from there toward the heart the head just gets the leftover crumbs. The stomach area (the womb) is kind of in the picture too which is nice being a man to feel we're not left out spiritually, if you imagine the Spirit descending upwards from there!

The Spirit is the Living Water Jesus spoke of, by which we are born again.
This carries feminine overtones which are put in beautiful and holy language by Jesus, and not really that hard to understand the Jewish view of Spirit

anyway, what you say about feminine aspect is exactly correct. without wishing to assign any gender to the Holy Spirit, the early eastern church did personify as a Her very often (Spirit is a feminine word in Syriac/Aramaic). Classic examples of this are Saint Ephrem and the Odes of Solomon. Ephrem said things like Jesus was born twice, one from the Spirit and again through Mary. He was no heretic but a revered Saint in the Orthodox church. This theology faded away as the western church preferred a masculine Spirit but the Virgin Mary's character and person seems very closely linked to the Holy Spirit who is sort of the Western version in some interesting ways
Lastly in a few lost gospels Jesus calls the Spirit 'his Mother' (Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Hebrews, see also Trimorphic Protennoia for Gnostic version).

That's enough to say there were ancient understandings of the Holy Spirit as feminine, as well as masculine. If that matters, it might or might not I don't know, it is helpful to some but not everyone

One last thing, i think much of the debate about feminine aspects of God is not always helpful and gets amplified for and against too much these days
I just want to do what's right for the Holy Spirit and if you see a Him, a Her or an It, doesn't really matter to God.
This may be something to do with God encompassing both masculine and feminine attributes, without being one or the other. I think it's healthy to have both somewhere in your spiritual schema

I do tend for feel quite protective of the Holy Spirit in general
I don't like what some churches tend to do, reduce the Spirit to a force, or a power that can be wielded. That's blasphemy to me, to be honest.
Likewise, manifestations and spirit possession of some charismatics is not the Holy Spirit I know and love

Emerald as regards the trinity I tend just to see it that God the Father is how we perceive God in the mind, and the Holy Spirit how we perceive in the soul. And Jesus connects these together. Same God, different senses used to perceive Him. They are distinct persons within the mystery of the godhead, in the same way the soul, heart and mind are distinct persons within us yet one person

I don't know if the Holy Spirit is entirely unique to the Christian faith, but Christians have something very special here in that Jesus died not only for forgive sins, but if he hadn't died Pentecost wouldn't have happened when the Spirit was released into the body of the church.
The Holy Spirit is our link back to Him, in what breathed in Him in Mary at his birth, at His baptism and through his sacrifice, may breathe in us leading to eternal life. This is why Jesus was so protective of the Holy Spirit, to play games or bring in other spirits would be to deny everything about him

Martin

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

As a protestant pastor said, "The Holy spirit is what connects humans to God. It is God's breath, the Divine that is in each human being and connects us all as the family of God".

Not exactly like what is referred to as "Atman" in Hinduism, but close. Also close to what general spirituality calls the "Higher Self" or "Spirit".

Visions, revelations, sudden insight, answers to personal questions or highly creative ideas that come from seemingly nowhere, in my opinion can be seen as being filled with the Holy Spirit.

God (or Source), Jesus (or Christ Consciousness) and the Holy Spirit (the Divine inside us) can be seen as three aspects of the same, one God (source).

Personally, I do not think that God is male or female, but beyond things like gender. Humans come in two different genders, but God is neither and both.

"The Holy Spirit plays an important role in spiritual rebirth."
"The Holy Spirit enlightens."
From a pastor again. Reminds me so much of things I have read here...

Might say more to it later.

[dream jo]

dnt no coz im not relgeesss i chosss 2 be a humnistt i did
sun holly sppirrtt is i hear it funrellsss i hv i hav

[Nowayout]

The Holy Spirit does not come from you but comes at the most unexpected moments.

[Ariaecheflame]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

ah Emerald great question and my favourite topic of all, the Holy Spirit. Can't wait to start responding to this!
My background in Anglican church of England told me zero, nothing about the Holy Spirit. This is a blessing in some ways, as nothing is better than being misled.


I love how you have the perspective of it being a blessing to not have any strong church influences reguarding the Holy Spirit - I feel happy that this is one of the few things my childhood church didn't sink their teeth into too much - although a part of me wonders if a bit of contrast for understanding might help in this instance

I encountered the Holy Spirit quite unexpectedly simply during services in the worship singing along with a praise band. A feeling rose in my chest, a presence. Was it due to inhaling additional oxygen? No, i began to feel this outside of church too. This convinced me a lot more on the reality of God. I came to understand this is the Holy Spirit, associated with peaceful feelings, a fragrance, a joyfulness, a gentleness. A guide too, on what is right and wrong (not that I followed very well, for a long time in the wilderness)
this sounds more familiar to me... I attended about two other church services as a teenager - can't remember the denomination but they were one of those 'Happy' churches- well not as happy as some very exuberant one's and mostly happy until they realise your best friend is gay that hahaha anyway- I remember the music and an almost conjuring of spirit during praise. I experience something similar sometimes when sing to my favourite music - when I'm in 'the flow' state of being - where all of time and reality outside of what I'm doing falls away and... i' m not sure - pure bliss?
I've never experienced it outside of the building before! Part of me wonders if all those people in praise moved by the spirit within create that expanded energy and become aware of it - or if it truely outside - actually I just had a thought- it is there all along - all around - all the time and it takes a 'tapping in'... I'm rambling hahaha

The church was hardly helpful here, a sermon i remember was all about not trusting your feelings, you mean I thought like, not trusting God?
that is a strange one! I think I sort of get it... maybe don't be ruled by your feelings?! It is a bit of an unbalanced reccomendation but I guess it serves for why and when it was said.

I trust your feelings on all this by the way


So my own personal feeling is it is a personal feeling
I've come to realise there are wildly differing views of this within the faith, and maybe not everyone experiences it the same way, so that's a caveat to everything I'm saying.
Grace is a good word and connected with the Holy Spirit and Jesus too

Yes, certainly a great point to raise!
Your description of an energy from head to toe is a little different, but that may not mean anything. The feeling of compassion and connection rings true
I just feel it's located within the soul and reaches up from there toward the heart the head just gets the leftover crumbs. The stomach area (the womb) is kind of in the picture too which is nice being a man to feel we're not left out spiritually, if you imagine the Spirit descending upwards from there!
that is cool, thanks for sharing!

The Spirit is the Living Water Jesus spoke of, by which we are born again.
This carries feminine overtones which are put in beautiful and holy language by Jesus, and not really that hard to understand the Jewish view of Spirit
this is interesting... as usual I will have to take your word on that until I do myself some more reading haha... to think that I used to hate reading and now.it feels like all I do sometimes... stupid learning haha... ok - way off track!

anyway, what you say about feminine aspect is exactly correct. without wishing to assign any gender to the Holy Spirit, the early eastern church did personify as a Her very often (Spirit is a feminine word in Syriac/Aramaic). Classic examples of this are Saint Ephrem and the Odes of Solomon. Ephrem said things like Jesus was born twice, one from the Spirit and again through Mary. He was no heretic but a revered Saint in the Orthodox church. This theology faded away as the western church preferred a masculine Spirit but the Virgin Mary's character and person seems very closely linked to the Holy Spirit who is sort of the Western version in some interesting ways
quite interesting, I do say
Lastly in a few lost gospels Jesus calls the Spirit 'his Mother' (Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Hebrews, see also Trimorphic Protennoia for Gnostic version).

That's enough to say there were ancient understandings of the Holy Spirit as feminine, as well as masculine. If that matters, it might or might not I don't know, it is helpful to some but not everyone

One last thing, i think much of the debate about feminine aspects of God is not always helpful and gets amplified for and against too much these days
I just want to do what's right for the Holy Spirit and if you see a Him, a Her or an It, doesn't really matter to God.
This may be something to do with God encompassing both masculine and feminine attributes, without being one or the other. I think it's healthy to have both somewhere in your spiritual schema
again, great points. I personally feel myself as androgynous in spirit because I am one of those strange generation of kids which have not bothered to care for clearly defined views on gender and sexuality hahaha... I feel God as - perpetual balance and the nature of unconditional love feels neautral to be... the perfect state of balance. Though for the purpose of assisting mine own empowerment as a woman on this earth I find it helpful to draw upon repressed feminine expression to bring it out and foward and having a clear seperation of the two energies I guess. Although my natural soul preference is neautrality.

I do tend for feel quite protective of the Holy Spirit in general
I don't like what some churches tend to do, reduce the Spirit to a force, or a power that can be wielded. That's blasphemy to me, to be honest.
Likewise, manifestations and spirit possession of some charismatics is not the Holy Spirit I know and love interesting you say that, my feelings on this is it is a prop in a show... it sort of turns the whole thing into a bit of a state production - it reminds me of those stage hypnotists who attract large crowds

Emerald as regards the trinity I tend just to see it that God the Father is how we perceive God in the mind, and the Holy Spirit how we perceive in the soul. And Jesus connects these together. Same God, different senses used to perceive Him. They are distinct persons within the mystery of the godhead, in the same way the soul, heart and mind are distinct persons within us yet one person thanks for that... I find your interpretation interesting -

I don't know if the Holy Spirit is entirely unique to the Christian faith, but Christians have something very special here in that Jesus died not only for forgive sins, but if he hadn't died Pentecost wouldn't have happened when the Spirit was released into the body of the church.
The Holy Spirit is our link back to Him, in what breathed in Him in Mary at his birth, at His baptism and through his sacrifice, may breathe in us leading to eternal life. This is why Jesus was so protective of the Holy Spirit, to play games or bring in other spirits would be to deny everything about him

Martin

thanks Martin, I appreciate the time you have taken to write a response here. You gave me some things to work with... and was able to remind me to centre myself a bit more into a unified sense of relating... as I had pulled alot of aspects apart like an engine haha and was trying to relate to something singular - and forgetting to look at its role within the whole engine
I've been given a bit to chew on here so will take some time now haha- get a coffee- work my job and then come back to chew on a bit more lol

P.s please excuse all my spelling mistakes... I only have internet on my phone at this time and everything auto-corrects haha... just to make all my responses like a nice word puzzle for the readers!

[Ariaecheflame]

Originally Posted by SeekerOfKnowledge

As a protestant pastor said, "The Holy spirit is what connects humans to God. It is God's breath, the Divine that is in each human being and connects us all as the family of God".

Not exactly like what is referred to as "Atman" in Hinduism, but close. Also close to what general spirituality calls the "Higher Self" or "Spirit".

Visions, revelations, sudden insight, answers to personal questions or highly creative ideas that come from seemingly nowhere, in my opinion can be seen as being filled with the Holy Spirit.

God (or Source), Jesus (or Christ Consciousness) and the Holy Spirit (the Divine inside us) can be seen as three aspects of the same, one God (source).

Personally, I do not think that God is male or female, but beyond things like gender. Humans come in two different genders, but God is neither and both.

"The Holy Spirit plays an important role in spiritual rebirth."
"The Holy Spirit enlightens."
From a pastor again. Reminds me so much of things I have read here...

Might say more to it later.

Thanks Seeker. Makes sense... and is very close to what many others talk about now days in many different circles. Sounds like I'd get along all right with that pastor haha.

Makes me wonder some more though as 'rebirth' is associated with Kundalini in eastern teachings.
Of course from a personal perspective - I naturally wonder about this. I had two very distinct phases in my own rebirth... one was what I would call experiencing 'Grace'... having an experience where only the Grace of love would save me and then this sparked a kundalini awakeneing.


As to gender... as I mentioned in my response to Martin... I feel God / source as neautrality and balance between the two creative energies as one.
Neautrality feels like pureove to me haha... but that's just me

Thanks again for sharing!

[Ariaecheflame]

Originally Posted by dream jo

dnt no coz im not relgeesss i chosss 2 be a humnistt i did
sun holly sppirrtt is i hear it funrellsss i hv i hav

Yeh... true that hey! I'm lucky enough to have only been to a couple of funerals so far... but know what your talking about.

[Ariaecheflame]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

The Holy Spirit does not come from you but comes at the most unexpected moments.

Curious
I guess I'll have to wait to find out!
I've been sober of other spirits... mainly the spirits of hops, potatoes and sugar cane for 5 days now ... maybe that will help hehe

Thanks Nowayout

[Nowayout]

Good for you, I quit drinking a week ago.. I'm done with it.

Not that I drank that much.. but every night a few for the road.