What happens when we die

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I must admit I don't believe in past lives or individual reincarnation. Quite simple we are this Universe, where as one person dies another is born. In simple terms we experience death every night when we sleep and have no conscious awareness. So when we die it will be just like going to sleep and never waking up.

From an individual perspective 'nothingness' may sound quite depressing. However, when you see yourself as this Universe then this is so beautiful and so magical. Especially with the realisation that as the Universe we are eternal, where we always exist through everyone and everything. With this being our time for our life experience - for which I am so extremely grateful for mine.

So why are you still on this Spiritual Forum if you seem so skeptic and disagree with everyone? I'm not mean but I don't get your point. What is that you want to do on this Forum? Spread your opinion? For me what you saying does not even make sense and can detect logic flaws, perhaps you are assuming that because is considered simple and doesen't need explanations. All that you're saying is not even tangent with Spirituality. Perhaps you should go on a Physics or other Science forum and debate there?

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by Claude

So why are you still on this Spiritual Forum if you seem so skeptic and disagree with everyone? I'm not mean but I don't get your point. What is that you want to do on this Forum? Spread your opinion? For me what you saying does not even make sense and can detect logic flaws, perhaps you are assuming that because is considered simple and doesen't need explanations. All that you're saying is not even tangent with Spirituality. Perhaps you should go on a Physics or other Science forum and debate there?

I promise I don't find you mean at all, as we are all entitled to our opinions. After all, isn't this is what spirituality is all about?

Indeed, while some may disagree, others on this forum share the same views as me. Where I find spirituality and science to be entirely compatible. If anything I believe nothing is hidden from us, as following my spiritual awakening and breathtaking journey of self discovery I don't believe that the universe has a creator or is predetermined, - but organic. Where I simply see beyond my physical self. As in my mind, true spirituality isn't about confined beliefs, but about true freedom to be limitless.

The best analogy I therefore relate to is the one coined by Alan Watts, "You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean".

In all honesty I was once so incredibly sceptical, but after exploring the wonder of spirituality I now have a perfect realisation of who I am. Where I feel so privileged that this has allowed me to find all aspects of life and the universe so breathtakingly beautiful.

If there are those who see this as I do, then that is so magical. Similarly, if there are those who see differently to me that too is so magical. As we are each special in our own way no matter how we perceive ourselves and the universe around us.

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

Of course I see us as continuous with the Universe. It is like one big Quantum Field out of which everything manifests (i.e. collapses the wave function). That is how everything is connected and One.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I promise I don't find you mean at all, as we are all entitled to our opinions. After all, isn't this is what spirituality is all about?

Indeed, while some may disagree, others on this forum share the same views as me. Where I find spirituality and science to be entirely compatible. If anything I believe nothing is hidden from us, as following my spiritual awakening and breathtaking journey of self discovery I don't believe that the universe has a creator or is predetermined, - but organic. Where I simply see beyond my physical self. As in my mind, true spirituality isn't about confined beliefs, but about true freedom to be limitless.

The best analogy I therefore relate to is the one coined by Alan Watts, "You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean".

In all honesty I was once so incredibly sceptical, but after exploring the wonder of spirituality I now have a perfect realisation of who I am. Where I feel so privileged that this has allowed me to find all aspects of life and the universe so breathtakingly beautiful.

If there are those who see this as I do, then that is so magical. Similarly, if there are those who see differently to me that too is so magical. As we are each special in our own way no matter how we perceive ourselves and the universe around us.

So, will we still be conscious (aware) of us after we die? Do we get to live as mind (consciousness) after death? Do we get to meet other dead ?

According to you (as most of all your posts resume to this idea repeated over and over again):

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I believe that when we die, we simply cease to be. Where our individual consciousness dissipates into cosmic conscious from where we came. With no past life or afterlife. Where we exist through...

I don't believe in individual souls or individual reincarnation. Quite simply that each one of us is the very soul of the Universe. So as one person dies another is born.

A death experience doesn't feel of anything, as there is no conscious awareness to feel anything with. So as you quite righty say, the absence of an experience can't be an experience. So after we die no-one is experiencing something that can't be experienced. Wow, get your head around that one! Haha!).

By those statements I don't think the answers to my questions is positive...soo..

I guess that statements contradicts most of what people believe here, this is a Spiritual Forum (most people come here to exchange opinions regarding spirit, spiritual experiences or just to learn more, and I don't think it's your case since you keep repeating this non-sense idea containing logical flaws). I don't get your point, I don't see anything spiritual in your posts but just logical flaws and the same idea repeated. How are you trying to help people here encouraging them by saying they cease to exist but don't worry someone else is born?

Ow and by the way 'nothingness' is actually something, the better fit would be void or null

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

From an individual perspective 'nothingness' may sound quite depressing. However, when you see yourself as this Universe then this is so beautiful and so magical. Especially with the realisation that as the Universe we are eternal, where we always exist through everyone and everything. With this being our time for our life experience - for which I am so extremely grateful for mine.

Flaw alert: According to you (as from the last quoted paragraph), you are grateful for living experience, correct? But also according to you if you were not born (same as being dead) you would have not experienced anything, you would just be void, so how would you regret then? Again, contradicting yourself and again logical flaws...

To be honest, I don't see anything extraordinary in your "spiritual" path like you were skeptic because it was depressing for life to end, but now you are OK, since when you die someone else is born. So what? What's the discovery? Did you discover Americas yet?

What is the point of the Universe having so many experiences, what good for? What is the Universe going to do with them? Why are there conflicts ? If we are one why do we fight ourself? Is like beating ourself up, that's just.... When people on this Forum regard as we being One, I think they regard it as being fragments of the Universe like parts of the Source, individual pieces from the Puzzle and not the Universe itself having an experience. Ow yes, Alan Watts, the guy who was criticized a lot by Buddhists because he was misinterpreting concepts.

Now tell me Universe, with big claims, if you are indeed the Universe having an individual experience as written in your signature why do you just believe? You should know everything that happened at least until this point. That's one of the many flaws, you should never start with "believe", you MUST "know" since you are the Universe and arrived to this point

If you are the Universe indeed and came to this point, maybe tell us about how events took place until now? Maybe you can help Historians? What is the point of self discovery? Why do we have scientists to explore ourselves if we are the Universe, shouldn't we have known this and a lot more already? Need I say more? What do you say?

[soulforce]

To Ghost_Rider_1970

A death experience doesn't feel of anything, as there is no conscious awareness to feel anything with. So as you quite righty say, the absence of an experience can't be an experience. So after we die no-one is experiencing something that can't be experienced. Wow, get your head around that one! Haha!).

Agreed, but from my perspective for the reasons you just mentioned, the notion that death can't be experienced leads to an interesting conjecture about the nature of consciousness.

Here's another interesting concept. Our bodies continuously generate cells to replace our old ones. After 7 years or so, some people would argue our entire bodies have replaced old cells for new ones. Does this mean we are the same person we were 7 years ago?

Since the absence of consciousness is the lack of a reality/existence the nature of reality requires continuous stream of consciousness.

Have you ever contemplated the idea that our consciousness as you putted survives bodily death (returns to the Universe) but retains a greater understanding of it's many lives? If yes why did you end up concluding that reincarnation requires us to remember the lives that came before?

It's magical from having conscious appreciation as a living being, to understand who we are and that our life purpose is to experience. To know that we are more than an individual, isolated 'Being'. That we are this universe. So as one person dies, another is born. So the universe can experience itself anew again and again. From each unique viewpoint, without any presupposition or preconception.

As Stephen Hawking discovered information in the Universe isn't lost rather changes state of entropy. Information is continuous and information needs consciousness for it to exist. For what is consciousness really but the ability for the Universe to perceive itself - doesn't that presuppose that consciousness is also continuous?

In my view those that die are not sentient, as we can only appreciate things and have realisation to experience with all our senses in every moment of our beautiful existence. As the current moment is all there ever is - or ever will be. We therefore have this one life to appreciate ourselves as this universe. Where for that l so extremely grateful

Interesting. This means it took 10 billion plus years for you to have your shot at a temporal kind of sentience. Before then you knew nothing, and after your death you will know nothing but you're certain you know this is real? Hence your life demonstrates that oblivion can be considered discontinuous. As it turns out science is demonstrating that in the absence of something is still something. Lol. Ironically perhaps it will be science who will raise the idea of reincarnation instead of spirituality.

Since many lifetimes are being born it would appear consciousness in contrast to non-temporal ideas is it would appear continuous. Maybe the universe "desires" to continually try to experience itself - as you put it.

Added***

I really like your sleep metaphor as a description into the nature of death. It's actually very accurate. Sleeping is a lot like how we will experience bodily death. We can feel ourselves falling asleep, but we will not experience the instant in which we lose consciousness. Instead what we end up experiencing: is falling asleep, dreaming, and waking up. Even though other's can see us sleep, we don't observe ourselves sleeping (unless we have an out of body experience) from our perspective we are always conscious.

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by Claude

So, will we still be conscious (aware) of us after we die? Do we get to live as mind (consciousness) after death? Do we get to meet other dead ?

I appreciate my truth and yours differs, although this doesn't mean that any one is greater than the other. Where I respect your thoughts and ask that you kindly do the same for mine. Where to answer your questions.

No, we won't be consciously aware after we die. We simply return to the universe from where we originated. Yes, I appreciate many don't like the idea of this - and is often because they don't see beyond their individuality. We therefore don't live as mind either. We simply cease to be. So, as beautiful as it may sound - we don't get to meet those that have died. For me, I'm just so very grateful for those that I love and those that love me.

Again, I do understand why many will see this differently. Where this is their prerogative, as my reasoning is mine. However, this doesn't make it any less spiritual with me not being atheist or theist - but organic. Just like the way I see the universe.

Originally Posted by Claude

According to you (as most of all your posts resume to this idea repeated over and over again):

I'd at least like to think my posts are consistent

I quite simply feel that I've evolved to the point where after exploring spirituality I found 'my search for the truth'. Where I'm more than happy to share as I've done so for many years here. There are those it will resonate with, and there are those it won't. Either is perfectly fine, as we all have Free Will. I'll therefore always respect the views of others - and of course yours.

Originally Posted by Claude

By those statements I don't think the answers to my questions is positive...soo..

I guess that statements contradicts most of what people believe here, this is a Spiritual Forum (most people come here to exchange opinions regarding spirit, spiritual experiences or just to learn more, and I don't think it's your case since you keep repeating this non-sense idea containing logical flaws). I don't get your point, I don't see anything spiritual in your posts but just logical flaws and the same idea repeated. How are you trying to help people here encouraging them by saying they cease to exist but don't worry someone else is born?

I don't necessarily think that's true as many here share the very same view as me. Indeed, I started my spiritual journey where from learning, understanding and experience I am now more than happy to explain my views and thoughts.

You say my argument is flawed, yet I offer this to everyone where they can choose to have their own experiences without any need to engage in spiritual practices or special knowledge or hidden skills. If anything, many spiritual practices can't do this - where I have learned this from personal experience with an open heart and an open mind. So I ask anyone else to do the same. This way no-one can deny what they believe is right for them. Even if they see things from a different perspective than me.

Originally Posted by Claude

Ow and by the way 'nothingness' is actually something, the better fit would be void or null

Oh yes, I agree!

Nothingness is something - as the whole universe came out of nothingness. We cant have plants, animals, seas, fields - anything - without nothingness. As it is the space that makes and defines everything in creation. The difference being that we as conscious beings will never experience nothingness. So when we die, our consciousness won't go into a black void, or heaven, or hell - we will just become the fabric of the universe from where we came.

Originally Posted by Claude

Flaw alert: According to you (as from the last quoted paragraph), you are grateful for living experience, correct? But also according to you if you were not born (same as being dead) you would have not experienced anything, you would just be void, so how would you regret then? Again, contradicting yourself and again logical flaws...

Well, I never mentioned regret anywhere. So to regret should be a learning experience with us not being able to change the past or worry about a future that is yet to happen. So while I am aware of them, I don't live in the past or the future. Only the present. As the present moment is all we have. So yes, I am so very grateful for my life experience. That I am aware of myself, my body, and my senses. So as I reach out into the universe, the universe reaches into me. As it does with you, with everyone and everything. It's then about being receptive. So instead of just looking at the world from inside out, you also see it from the outside in.

Originally Posted by Claude

To be honest, I don't see anything extraordinary in your "spiritual" path like you were skeptic because it was depressing for life to end, but now you are OK, since when you die someone else is born. So what? What's the discovery? Did you discover Americas yet?

Of course that's your right, and we should each follow our own life path. Create our own footsteps rather than walk in the footsteps of others.

You do make an assumption though that I found it depressing about life coming to an end. With my hand on my heart I've never thought that way, or been afraid of death. If anything my spiritual journey allowed me to see the beauty in death the very same as the beauty in life - as nature cannot have one without the other. The real point here is to see them as being intrinsically linked rather than separate. When you think about it, this applies to every aspect: hot/cold; soft/hard; light/dark. This being the true meaning of yin and yang - as the dots in the symbol represent that you can't have one without the other.

Originally Posted by Claude

What is the point of the Universe having so many experiences, what good for? What is the Universe going to do with them? Why are there conflicts ? If we are one why do we fight ourself? Is like beating ourself up, that's just.... When people on this Forum regard as we being One, I think they regard it as being fragments of the Universe like parts of the Source, individual pieces from the Puzzle and not the Universe itself having an experience. Ow yes, Alan Watts, the guy who was criticized a lot by Buddhists because he was misinterpreting concepts.

The point is to 'simply be'. To exist and be in awe of this mesmerising universe. To be in awe of yourself, to be in awe of others. To see that you are part of everything going on around you - and that you perfect. As is everyone.

Think of it this way.

Imagine the most incredible piece of music. Where our lives are notes that fade in and fade out as we are born and then die. Where every note is played in the right place at the right time. As ours are being played at this very moment in time. Where without your note, or my note - or anyone else's note - it wouldn't be the same. As it would be incomplete.

The reason for conflicts is usually because of selfish people in power. Who don't see beyond their own materialistic gains. They are the ones who will usually stand on someone to get where they want to be = irrespective of the consequences. They tend to take from the world, but don't give back - or give very little.

As for Alan Watts he was a self proclaimed 'entertainer'. Where I find his philosophy so beautiful and so simply. Again, each to their own.

Originally Posted by Claude

Now tell me Universe, with big claims, if you are indeed the Universe having an individual experience as written in your signature why do you just believe? You should know everything that happened at least until this point. That's one of the many flaws, you should never start with "believe", you MUST "know" since you are the Universe and arrived to this point

Well, don't forget you are the universe just as much as I am. As is everyone. So this isn't about status or superiority. Quite the opposite. As to realise who you are is most humbling. It therefore isn't about having all the answers to everything. As where's the fun knowing about something before it's even happened. You see, I use the word 'fun' as life is 'play'.

So do you think the birds in the trees or the lions in the jungle contemplate such things? No, they 'simply be'. That is what I believe is true spirituality. It is our curious minds that tend to get in the way and over complicate things!

Originally Posted by Claude

If you are the Universe indeed and came to this point, maybe tell us about how events took place until now? Maybe you can help Historians? What is the point of self discovery? Why do we have scientists to explore ourselves if we are the Universe, shouldn't we have known this and a lot more already? Need I say more? What do you say?

It isn't about knowing everything. It's about being born with a blank canvas and painting it with your own life's design. It's therefore up to each of us what we want out of life. Some are simply happy going about their daily business. Others - like me - want to know all about the nature of their being.

Here is the thing though.

If you are prepared to ask the questions, you must also be prepared to accept the the answer - even if it isn't one you may want to hear. This I have done many times - and continue to do so.

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by soulforce

Agreed, but from my perspective for the reasons you just mentioned, the notion that death can't be experienced leads to an interesting conjecture about the nature of consciousness.

Here's another interesting concept. Our bodies continuously generate cells to replace our old ones. After 7 years or so, some people would argue our entire bodies have replaced old cells for new ones. Does this mean we are the same person we were 7 years ago?

Since the absence of consciousness is the lack of a reality/existence the nature of reality requires continuous stream of consciousness.

Have you ever contemplated the idea that our consciousness as you putted survives bodily death (returns to the Universe) but retains a greater understanding of it's many lives? If yes why did you end up concluding that reincarnation requires us to remember the lives that came before?

Hi soulforce,

Thank you once again for your kind reply and wonderful post.

Yes, there is a case that all cells regenerate, so after 7 years are you still the same person as you once were?

In my view, yes and no. As while cells regenerate, your conscious awareness remains. Here is the thing though, the more something goes into the past, the more it disappears - like memories. As others often sharing the same memory recall them differently. This is because they do fade over time and can become a little distorted. So only things that happen in the present moment is actually reality from each of our perspectives.

I have also really considered consciousness surviving physical death. Indeed, this along with past lives, souls contracts, and reincarnation is something I initially came to believe in during the beginning of my spiritual journey. Effectively my starting point.

As I continued, many of these things just didn't resonate with me. I liked the idea of them, but in my heart it just didn't sit right. I thought, "if we come to know the 'game', why isn't this reality then revealed?". A bit like when we play 'hide and seek'.

What I came to realise is that for many life is a game - just a different one. Where the game of 'hide and seek' is actually hiding from who we are. So we tend to see ourselves as nothing more than a soul in a bag of skin running around like headless chickens

However, with this game we can see behind this illusion, with everything being visual to us if we choose to see it. So rather than seeing ourselves like this we 'awaken' to our true nature. That we are all this universe with our own Free Will. So instead of us being a soul in a body, we are a body that is the soul of the universe. I hope that makes sense :)

So when it comes to reincarnation, once I die someone else with their own unique consciousness will be born. Without any preconceptions or influences. So my consciousness isn't carried over, kept or stored - it simple dissipates and then the universe becomes concentrated consciousness in someone else.

Originally Posted by soulforce

As Stephen Hawking discovered information in the Universe isn't lost rather changes state of entropy. Information is continuous and information needs consciousness for it to exist. For what is consciousness really but the ability for the Universe to perceive itself - doesn't that presuppose that consciousness is also continuous?

Oh yes I adore Stephen Hawking as I do Alan Watts. Where I agree that energy isn't lost but changes state. From a consciousness perspective it forms as a human being then dissolves once that person dies. So those memories dissolve with that person as they are unique as part of their life experience. When someone else is born, the process stars again completely anew. So unlike us who read a book and know the ending to a movie once we've seen it - the universe starts again with a perfectly clear level of consciousnesses in everyone that is born.

Originally Posted by soulforce

Interesting. This means it took 10 billion plus years for you to have your shot at a temporal kind of sentience. Before then you knew nothing, and after your death you will know nothing but you're certain you know this is real? Hence your life demonstrates that oblivion can be considered discontinuous. As it turns out science is demonstrating that in the absence of something is still something. Lol. Ironically perhaps it will be science who will raise the idea of reincarnation instead of spirituality.

For me, yes, that is exactly right. This is my time, as it is yours - and everyone who is living at this precise moment. So when I die, off I go to my eternal sleep, haha! Science shows that all the positive and all the negative energy always add up to nothing! So, yes, as one person dies another is born and maintains the equilibrium.

Originally Posted by soulforce

Since many lifetimes are being born it would appear consciousness in contrast to non-temporal ideas is it would appear continuous. Maybe the universe "desires" to continually try to experience itself - as you put it.

Added***

I really like your sleep metaphor as a description into the nature of death. It's actually very accurate. Sleeping is a lot like how we will experience bodily death. We can feel ourselves falling asleep, but we will not experience the instant in which we lose consciousness. Instead what we end up experiencing: is falling asleep, dreaming, and waking up. Even though other's can see us sleep, we don't observe ourselves sleeping (unless we have an out of body experience) from our perspective we are always conscious.

Thank you for liking my sleep analogy about death. Its one of the fundamental reasons why I believe when we die that is how death will be. Just like we never existed. I know that sounds kinda depressing, but I love how I as the universe will forever be eternal - and is why I cherish the life experience I have at this very moment in time

[Khalli]

All these posts and not one mention about the possiblity of ascension.

[soulforce]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Hi soulforce,

Thank you once again for your kind reply and wonderful post.

Yes, there is a case that all cells regenerate, so after 7 years are you still the same person as you once were?

In my view, yes and no. As while cells regenerate, your conscious awareness remains. Here is the thing though, the more something goes into the past, the more it disappears - like memories. As others often sharing the same memory recall them differently. This is because they do fade over time and can become a little distorted. So only things that happen in the present moment is actually reality from each of our perspectives.

Well memories are different than events. An event can be recorded accurately and kept, memories are subjective interpretations of an event. I speak of something transcending personal experiences; something more universal -that doesn't fade through the passage of time.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I have also really considered consciousness surviving physical death. Indeed, this along with past lives, souls contracts, and reincarnation is something I initially came to believe in during the beginning of my spiritual journey. Effectively my starting point.

As I continued, many of these things just didn't resonate with me. I liked the idea of them, but in my heart it just didn't sit right. I thought, "if we come to know the 'game', why isn't this reality then revealed?". A bit like when we play 'hide and seek'.

I can appreciate what you're saying. For the longest time I considered myself an Atheist. I didn't believe in life after death, God or anything of that sort. I didn't have any reason to. It was out-of-the-blue the "game", as you put it, was revealed to me. Now I know what the "game" means. What you said made me smile because you sound a lot like me approximately two years ago.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

What I came to realise is that for many life is a game - just a different one. Where the game of 'hide and seek' is actually hiding from who we are. So we tend to see ourselves as nothing more than a soul in a bag of skin running around like headless chickens

I can't speak for you, but I don't.

I understand that humans are beautiful creatures. You and I came to have a human experience; it's a little more important to us than just "a soul in a bag of skin running around like headless chickens". A very funny analogy though.

However, with this game we can see behind this illusion, with everything being visual to us if we choose to see it. So rather than seeing ourselves like this we 'awaken' to our true nature. That we are all this universe with our own Free Will. So instead of us being a soul in a body, we are a body that is the soul of the universe. I hope that makes sense :)

I kind of feel you choose to see the universe as a binary system. Either it's black or it's white. What if it's both at the same time?

Our true internal desire is to have a human experience and transcend into a universal one. There is also all the different states of consciousness in between. The other fact is we are there as we are here. We are in different places at once, and in different beings at once. The physicist call it superposition. It's simply the way it's always been.

So when it comes to reincarnation, once I die someone else with their own unique consciousness will be born. Without any preconceptions or influences. So my consciousness isn't carried over, kept or stored - it simple dissipates and then the universe becomes concentrated consciousness in someone else.

I experience it quit differently. The universe doesn't disregard us that way. We will always exist even if it's via different ego's. You don't need to remember the ego that came before, because we're all one. You are me and I am you. We are living as independent ego's but spiritually we are the same.

Oh yes I adore Stephen Hawking as I do Alan Watts. Where I agree that energy isn't lost but changes state. From a consciousness perspective it forms as a human being then dissolves once that person dies. So those memories dissolve with that person as they are unique as part of their life experience. When someone else is born, the process stars again completely anew. So unlike us who read a book and know the ending to a movie once we've seen it - the universe starts again with a perfectly clear level of consciousnesses in everyone that is born.

I beg your pardon, but you misquoted me. Let me reiterate that I said information not energy. Information is not lost not even in a black hole.

And I would argue that memories survive bodily death as well. You will see when your time comes.

For me, yes, that is exactly right. This is my time, as it is yours - and everyone who is living at this precise moment. So when I die, off I go to my eternal sleep, haha! Science shows that all the positive and all the negative energy always add up to nothing! So, yes, as one person dies another is born and maintains the equilibrium.

I'm a scientist and the universe is not in equilibrium. Not really at least. It only appears that way to us because we are transient. Unfortunately our universe does have an expiry date, because it is slowly tearing itself apart. Your notion that all this adds up to nothing is also incorrect.

Like I said before, we dream when we sleep so your "eternal sleep" will be filled with many a things.

Thank you for liking my sleep analogy about death. Its one of the fundamental reasons why I believe when we die that is how death will be. Just like we never existed. I know that sounds kinda depressing, but I love how I as the universe will forever be eternal - and is why I cherish the life experience I have at this very moment in time

Oh you're very welcome. It's interesting how we can look at the same event and see two very different realities. lol

You see sleep as the absence of consciousness and I see it as it is, we dream. Which everyone here knows suggest consciousness.

If you are insinuating "just like we never existed", then your own life is proof that oblivion is an illusion.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I appreciate my truth and yours differs, although this doesn't mean that any one is greater than the other. Where I respect your thoughts and ask that you kindly do the same for mine. Where to answer your questions.

Fair enough, but I can't, you seem to obnoxious for me, and I regret I stumbled upon negative closed minded people like you on this forum (you were the only closed minded person I found so far, I won't give you an award for that because I don't think your place should be on this Forum that regards spirituality). To put it bluntly you just repeat your idea over again and multiple threads (including Reincarnation ones) and I can't get your point, you seem narrow minded, limited and wanting to spread propaganda as a Dogma with your skepticism, flawed theories and misleading information. Why do you do that? What do you obtain by doing that? What is your goal? It seems that I am not the only one disagreeing with you (look at posts #31 and #40 in this thread). This is a spiritual forum, what you are postulating is not at all spiritual as I see it, because it's just closed minded, boring and incompatible with me so I will just simply ignore you by using the ignore list. (This is just to let you know that possible future replies from you to me seen as 1 row are useless, as I won't bother looking nor replying)

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

No, we won't be consciously aware after we die. We simply return to the universe from where we originated. Yes, I appreciate many don't like the idea of this - and is often because they don't see beyond their individuality. We therefore don't live as mind either. We simply cease to be. So, as beautiful as it may sound - we don't get to meet those that have died. For me, I'm just so very grateful for those that I love and those that love me.

So, what's the difference of how you were before and now? Before you thought the same, now you think you are the Universe but will end up the same way, not big difference, not spectacular, am not impressed.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Again, I do understand why many will see this differently. Where this is their prerogative, as my reasoning is mine. However, this doesn't make it any less spiritual with me not being atheist or theist - but organic. Just like the way I see the universe.

Did I write anything about theism or atheism in this thread? Nope
Did I ask for your opinion regarding this? Nope

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I'd at least like to think my posts are consistent

Very "clever", yet so limited like your idea that is being repeated

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I quite simply feel that I've evolved to the point where after exploring spirituality I found 'my search for the truth'. Where I'm more than happy to share as I've done so for many years here. There are those it will resonate with, and there are those it won't. Either is perfectly fine, as we all have Free Will. I'll therefore always respect the views of others - and of course yours.

Bluntly, my personal opinion you wasted all these years. It's like saying that you saw an empty glass and now it's filled with air. So what? Again, I don't see any progress, but just regress as waste of time. By analogy, you knew you will be void but now you know that you are Universe but also will be void after death, not a big change. You didn't answer my previous question: Have you discovered Americas yet? Anything new? Nope.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I don't necessarily think that's true as many here share the very same view as me. Indeed, I started my spiritual journey where from learning, understanding and experience I am now more than happy to explain my views and thoughts.

I already said this, they probably share the same view as "We are One" but not regard themselves as void after death, this is just your opinion. I don't want to read your flaws again, as I won't respond anymore, I am just wasting precious time with you. I think being open minded, analyzing and deciding for yourself while not negatively impacting other's perspectives is the way to go, and you clearly are the opposite. I thought you were more potent but in my eyes you are acting like a kid.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

You say my argument is flawed, yet I offer this to everyone where they can choose to have their own experiences without any need to engage in spiritual practices or special knowledge or hidden skills. If anything, many spiritual practices can't do this - where I have learned this from personal experience with an open heart and an open mind. So I ask anyone else to do the same. This way no-one can deny what they believe is right for them. Even if they see things from a different perspective than me.

Yes it is flawed, many of your statements are flawed having no sense. Note that I did not use the term "argument", you are starting the "argument". Read again maybe?

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Oh yes, I agree!

Nothingness is something - as the whole universe came out of nothingness. We cant have plants, animals, seas, fields - anything - without nothingness. As it is the space that makes and defines everything in creation. The difference being that we as conscious beings will never experience nothingness. So when we die, our consciousness won't go into a black void, or heaven, or hell - we will just become the fabric of the universe from where we came.

Wait, so you're saying above (let me quote you)

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

No, we won't be consciously aware after we die. We simply return to the universe from where we originated.

And you said "you were the universe", oh wow....

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Yes, I appreciate many don't like the idea of this - and is often because they don't see beyond their individuality. We therefore don't live as mind either. We simply cease to be

Ow boy, again contradiction? Look at what you said above

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

I don't necessarily think that's true as many here share the very same view as me.

Need I say more?

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Well, I never mentioned regret anywhere.

You said you are grateful that you live, correct? So if you wouldn't have lived by your flawed "logic", you couldn't be ungrateful.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

So to regret should be a learning experience with us not being able to change the past or worry about a future that is yet to happen. So while I am aware of them, I don't live in the past or the future. Only the present. As the present moment is all we have. So yes, I am so very grateful for my life experience. That I am aware of myself, my body, and my senses. So as I reach out into the universe, the universe reaches into me. As it does with you, with everyone and everything. It's then about being receptive. So instead of just looking at the world from inside out, you also see it from the outside in.

You want to seem wise, I get it (not impressed btw). Also, you should know that time is relative. Don't believe me? Go to space stay there for a while, come back here on Earth and spot the difference.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Of course that's your right, and we should each follow our own life path. Create our own footsteps rather than walk in the footsteps of others.

Yes, but you keep saying the same thing to be "consistent" so where is your progress? In typing words?

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

You do make an assumption though that I found it depressing about life coming to an end.

Nope, you said that

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

From an individual perspective 'nothingness' may sound quite depressing.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

With my hand on my heart I've never thought that way, or been afraid of death. If anything my spiritual journey allowed me to see the beauty in death the very same as the beauty in life - as nature cannot have one without the other. The real point here is to see them as being intrinsically linked rather than separate. When you think about it, this applies to every aspect: hot/cold; soft/hard; light/dark. This being the true meaning of yin and yang - as the dots in the symbol represent that you can't have one without the other.

You do realize that's not "spiritual", right? Yes there is a death for everything, so what? You knew this before, probably since school (if you attended that) or even earlier

Again you are repeating yourself and it's really becoming boring, annoying, you won't drag me in this circle.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

The point is to 'simply be'. To exist and be in awe of this mesmerising universe. To be in awe of yourself, to be in awe of others. To see that you are part of everything going on around you - and that you perfect. As is everyone.

You do realize that "perfect" is relative right? And needs to be defined. I regard everyone as imperfect. Why? Look at the definition:having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.

Perfect, as is everyone?Who says this? I dare you to go to a disabled person and say this.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Think of it this way.

Imagine the most incredible piece of music. Where our lives are notes that fade in and fade out as we are born and then die. Where every note is played in the right place at the right time. As ours are being played at this very moment in time. Where without your note, or my note - or anyone else's note - it wouldn't be the same. As it would be incomplete.

The reason for conflicts is usually because of selfish people in power. Who don't see beyond their own materialistic gains. They are the ones who will usually stand on someone to get where they want to be = irrespective of the consequences. They tend to take from the world, but don't give back - or give very little.

Ow no, again this idea repeated, boring.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

As for Alan Watts he was a self proclaimed 'entertainer'. Where I find his philosophy so beautiful and so simply. Again, each to their own.

Entertainer, so his place should be at the Circus or in a comedy show? What about your other mentor "Stephen Hawking"(according to him, now just a pile of useless ashes), the guy that was over rated, despite not even getting the Nobel? (Even if the Nobel Prize was invented by humans), perhaps he had flaws in his "theories"?
Sorry, but I'll keep ballin' with the big guys

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Well, don't forget you are the universe just as much as I am.

Wrong on so many levels, including logic. I never wrote that I regard myself as the Universe, so there is your flaw again. I don't regard myself as the Universe, but a piece of it, and if all the pieces are reunited we are "One" . Probably most people here regard as "we are one" the only intersection point with others in what you want to call "spirituality" but their views are way too different from yours. In my opinion your posts have nothing to do with spirituality (and with this forum) aside from the statement "we are one".
Have a look again.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

As is everyone.

Who says so? You?

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

So this isn't about status or superiority. Quite the opposite. As to realise who you are is most humbling. It therefore isn't about having all the answers to everything. As where's the fun knowing about something before it's even happened. You see, I use the word 'fun' as life is 'play'.

Not entertained, I never talked about superiority, in this thread, you are deviating. I'll talk about it now if you want it so much. With respect, I want to communicate with open minded people, being close minded is a big no for me, way below my league, so I tend to ignore those people that don't deserve my attention and effort

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

So do you think the birds in the trees or the lions in the jungle contemplate such things? No, they 'simply be'. That is what I believe is true spirituality. It is our curious minds that tend to get in the way and over complicate things!

How do you know all these? Did you get to live as an animal? Ow wait, you don't believe in reincarnation, my bad (I almost flawed like you, but I recognized, I always learn from mistakes btw).

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

It isn't about knowing everything. It's about being born with a blank canvas and painting it with your own life's design. It's therefore up to each of us what we want out of life. Some are simply happy going about their daily business. Others - like me - want to know all about the nature of their being.

Who says this? You? What's new with this? We knew this since we were children, lol.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Oh yes I adore Stephen Hawking as I do Alan Watts. Where I agree that energy isn't lost but changes state. From a consciousness perspective it forms as a human being then dissolves once that person dies. So those memories dissolve with that person as they are unique as part of their life experience. When someone else is born, the process stars again completely anew. So unlike us who read a book and know the ending to a movie once we've seen it - the universe starts again with a perfectly clear level of consciousnesses in everyone that is born.

Logical Flaw again: May I ask you: Are memories solid going into liquid ? As far as we know , I don't think so. So the term dissolve is wrongly used.

Look at the definition below:
Dissolve: (with reference to a solid) become or cause to become incorporated into a liquid so as to form a solution. An example of the process would be effervescent tablets dissolving in water. And here is the definition for effervescent tablets: Effervescent or carbon tablets are tablets which are designed to dissolve in water, and release carbon dioxide.

Have you never heard of Thermodynamics and that energy is never destroyed but conserved?

With respect, | | That's you and science (do you see any intersection?), I can clearly see that you don't even understand the basic Scientific concepts. You probably read Stephen Hawking's books just to pretend you're smart or to show off, and I would be surprised if you could understand anything, if you have difficulties grasping basic processes like "dissolving" or basic definitions like for "perfect" and writing without having knowledge of what you're typing (such as "nothingness"). If you don't understand anything or have difficulties understanding just ask, rather than posting misleading flawed information. Shouldn't have you known all these already, Universe? Please stop, you're just humiliating yourself (Universe ) by your own hand

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Here is the thing though.

If you are prepared to ask the questions, you must also be prepared to accept the the answer - even if it isn't one you may want to hear. This I have done many times - and continue to do so.

Ow yes. Why accept the answers? Who are you for me to accept the answers? I think I already wasted my time reading and replying to your non sense messages and I already learnt from my mistakes (unlike you)

Think of it this way: Some members are new and come here to find out more about spirituality, to learn and to share experiences, so of course they ask questions (for example, some are still sensible and in grief so they ask : "What happened to a family member that died recently?" / "I am about to die, what will happen to me? "/titled like this thread ("What happens when we die?") or "I am about to lose a family member, what will happen to him/her?". Then you come in, like in this thread, selfish (without thinking and caring about others) and demolish all their optimistic hopes by writing "Oow I believe there is nothing after death, we simply cease to exist", and you propagate this idea in most of your posts, very encouraging from your side, Universe. Who is selfish now? I guess that when you wrote all these posts you didn't thought that you might influence others in a negative way, bringing negative vibe as you type. If you want not to be selfish and help and protect others you should think first before starting to type. What you're doing is like crossing the road without looking if a car is passing, because you don't care about them. Guess what? The person might not have time to stop and provoke a collision with another object because of you. You're doing the same thing here.

Alternatively, you go to a burial or cremation and you're there encouraging the family "Ow don't worry that person simply ceased to exist" or "they are bacteria food or just a bunch of ashes", saying these words while they cry and can't bear the pain.....again very encouraging and inspiring, Universe.

How would you act if you would find out in News that someone on this Forum that was trying to find more about the afterlife was affected by your posts that state "we simply cease to exist", in such a way that ended up committing suicide (because he or she came here for hope and ended up depressed and couldn't bear the pain and anxiety anymore)? Hypothetically that person's life was precious, it could have changed the world for the better, but because you interfered with a negative influence, and the person was sensible, he or she kept dwelling on your posts and ended up committing suicide. I'm not saying that it would be your fault for that person's action but you both hypothetically would bear parts of the fault (you influencing the sensible person and the person letting be influenced by you).

And I'm not joking about all these, think of it this way: if a person is a student let's say, he or she will think that the dissolving process is independent of state, as you wrote it. If the person's doesen't check that by his or her own and goes by your words (by trusting you), they can fail an exam, that will affect their life, their future job etc (every point matters, every word matters, every second matters (as can make the difference between life and death), every action matters, and all can drastically impact someone's life and all these imply the Multiverse ). Alternatively you transmit flawed information to a person, that person doesen't check what you say as he or she trusts you, and they propagate the flawed information. If the receptor won't detect the flaw it will be transmitted to others. Now if the receptor can detect the flaw, he or she might bully the transmitter and the transmitter might go into depression and end up committing suicide. I would be surprised if your co-workers (if you have a job, universe having a job) are happy with the flawed information you share, it might affect their lives too, the job as well, but that's none of my business, as concepts and science are not your cup of tea as well.

You should have known as well that any decision as well as any flawed information, be it only a single word affected the course of the history as well, like in wars, and other disasters. Every single piece of information matters, every words might affect others, think twice always.

Unless fatal mistakes should be accepted and learnt from them, it's about perception, if you want to continue being selfish that's your decision.
If I were you, I would have never done this (better to abstain and keep for myself or say "I don't know" rather than to negative influence others), because I think about my actions and words, that might affect others, but hypothetically speaking if I would have done this I would have felt terrible sorry for affecting others in a negative way. You are the only one on this Forum , along so many threads that postulated such things. Most of the people here won't agree with your saying "simply cease to exist", and hypothetically speaking if they would, they still didn't posted unlike you.


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