The Law of Attractin... Exoteric or Esoteric?

[MicroMacro]

Originally Posted by Baile

The key is in Bartholomew's last comment, "Do we ever wonder, truly think about what exists behind it all?" The answer is mostly no. If we did, people wouldn't ask, "How do I make _______ happen in my life?" People mostly explore their spirituality from a human-centered, material place of inquiry.

How else would we know to explore it?

Yes! I do think about it - every day. And it's nutty! There's a lot going on. We're spiritual beings having a human experience. But insight is necessary here - to learn. That ah-hah, dawn of awareness moment. It has to take place inside - for me.

Your post was helpful - we've all got to start somewhere. I do feel the occasional pangs of angst though. This is all a bit frustrating - like I'm supposed to remember this stuff and it's just beyond my grasp. I recognize the difference between seeing with my senses and seeing from the inside - but I guess I'm just still new.

Being here is obviously important - even if it is just an illusion. Maybe that explains why I feel slightly high all the time.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by MicroMacro

How else would we know to explore it?

We're spiritual beings having a human experience. But insight is necessary here - to learn. That ah-hah, dawn of awareness moment. It has to take place inside - for me.

I'm also someone who believes spirituality is the act of living life. Experiential wisdom as the self-realization path. On the other hand, look at the endless threads and countless personal opinions regarding the topic of, say, karma and the law of cause and effect. Everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks it's something they can just personally decide if it's real or not. Along with living and experiencing life, there is also reading and studying for the purpose of gaining insight. Most of my great insights have come about as a direct result from having read and studied and reflected upon the insights of others who have come before me.

Originally Posted by MicroMacro

Maybe that explains why I feel slightly high all the time.

That's a result of higher self awareness and interaction, is how I would explain that. Middle path wisdom: feet on the earth and head near the heavens. And that's another example of something people arbitrarily toss out opinions about without having read or studied anything on the topic: the lower ego self versus the higher soul self.

[Baile]

Just to add and I mean this sincerely: Anyone who wants to begin to comprehend esoteric truth, anyone who wishes to understand "what exists behind it all," only has to read and study and reflect upon Bartholomew's contributions to this forum. A great place to begin. Click on his profile and choose any one of the threads he's created, and start reading and reflecting. Pure wisdom in every sentence and every thought. Just look at the very first thought he put forward in this thread for example: "Those are interested might consider the difference between this law as we understand it through our personalities and in what ways it would differ when view by us as souls." A lifetime of depth-wisdom and reflective content contained in that one statement.

[jro5139]

I think that saying there is no karma is along the lines of saying that we control everything. I've seen a few posters around here who believe these things.... If we control everything in our reality, than wouldn't we also control if we experience karma (that is the line of thinking (I think), not my own believe)....
I don't personally see where I'm controlling much at all, or I am than I certainly haven't figured out how to mold it into my ideal reality.
And the answer to this is always, well, like attracts like and that is how we control things. That one, just isn't how I am experiencing my life working, I'm sorry, although it would be great if it was really that simple.

As far as karma not existing... I think that's going a bit far, although I don't view karma in the traditional way. I think if a soul does something that it can't sit with than it will have to deal with that somehow. And I don't think just saying well everyone that is a victim agreed. That sort of frees up the perpetrator to have no punishment because the victims ultimately agreed, but I think the punishment lays in the perpetrators own soul, not in an outside, external source that will determine the punishment. Although really, I think it's not a punishment, but more of a understanding. In other words, every soul has to live with itself and come to terms with what it's personalities did, if it can't live with what it did, it must find a way to correct it somehow.

And that brings me to the original question of what is behind it all. That makes me think of God unless you mean what is behind God. And my view of God has changed from what I was taught and forced to believe, which was God is an entity (basically) to God is consciousness. God isn't an entity, although it can manifest as any entity it wants. And God is formless and doesn't appear in form, because It doesn't have one. That is what I think now. As far as what's beyond God, I have no idea, that would be interesting to hear more about and if it would be anything more than a void.

And while we're on the subject of God and LOA, wouldn't most of what it is being used for be material gain? At least a lot of what you see with spiritual teachers, even Christian preachers, and people who are trying to use it to better their physical lives. Not that I think there is anything wrong with having a good physical live, I don't at all, but what I wonder if what entity they are conquering up with this practice if it is directed at the material world. If practicing the loa are you always connecting to God/ Original Source/ whatever you want to call it... or are you just conquering up other entities and are these entities to be trusted all the time?
I'm not against conquering, I just think it's dangerous to conquer without knowing who or what it is you are bringing up. And if something is posing as something it is not, there can't be a good motive behind that.

Is God/ Source not pure and eternal love? As in when you pray to God, are you connecting with pure love, like the God in the Bible that is supposed to love us like we are it's child. The reason I ask is because some things about the loa don't seem like the love of a parent to me. I mean I am a parent and I would never tell my kid, well you asked for something but you worded it wrong so you can't have it. I don't play mind games with my kids when they want something, I either give it to them or I try to explain why they can't have it.
There are too many mind games in the loa for me, like it all depends on the wording and you can't think any negative thought or it negates things.. it seems to me like mind games, and that's not love. When you love someone you don't play mind games with them.
But I'm just trying to understand and that was my purely human opinion. I'm trying to find ways that work to make life better, now, not 100 years from now, but now. Because whether we choose this or we were forced, we are here so I see no reason it shouldn't be the best life it can be.

Originally Posted by MicroMacro

If consciousness is a principle then how is it produced?

Please be patient. I am working on a suitable reply.

Hi everyone my thread kind of changed into one about consciousness. I have tried, over the past four days, to provide suitable responses to some comments but everything I begin turns into a major piece on Consciousness. So.... I began writing it yesterday, starting with God and working my way down. I have found that within the grand subject of consciousness virtually everything else having to do with spirituality can be found. It (the piece) will be finished, more or less, in a month or two. Then I will post it under it's own title "A Little About Consciousness".

This is James writing this.... not my pal Bartholomew. I am not quite as sure of myself as he seems to be sometimes.

Those of you who channel will know that it is not always a programmed thing. Sometimes I am doing other things and am suddenly prompted with an idea that surprises me with it's elegance, and just when I needed it except that now I'm not sitting at my computer.... But I have to write it down before i forget it. So I have to run into the house and find paper and pencil. Does anyone recognize this pattern?

I ask you all to be patient with me as I slog along.

James

[MicroMacro]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Please be patient. I am working on a suitable reply.

Can't wait!

(Yes, I can.)

:)

[Dr. Shaw]

I too am interested in "Deep Reality", the metaphysics which forms the background to the foreground of perceived reality. To that end I have made a study of cosmology, quantum physics, comparative religion, altered states and consciousness research,and various esoteric paths to knowledge.
Just making the point that at least one of us (and I would guess more than just you and I) enjoy the deeper queries that you raised. It is not "beyond this forum". I find your statement quite appropriate for this venue.
Dr. Shaw