How much do you understand Pride?

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Honza

What is the spiritual significance of Pride? It holds an important role in the Old Testament, it is considered the cardinal sin by the Christians, the East suspiciously avoids mentioning it (correct me if I'm mistaken) or ropes it in with ego and thus underestimates it.

How do you understand it? To me it is a BIG issue. It lies at the crux of spiritual reality. I will wait till I hear what you have to say before I say more.

This is my view on 'pride'.

Pride is a very hidden conditioning.
Pride hinders true freedom.

If Liberation is not a person's cup of tea, there is no problem with possessing the trait of pride.
If one is interested in enlightenment, nirvana, liberation, etc., then conquering pride is essential.

The relevance of pride is relative, I would say.

[Honza]

If indeed pride can be conquered. My take is that pride is intrinsic - even to enlightenment. Therefore all one can do is to *redeem* pride. Which is the western approach.

The east tries to pass beyond pride to the peace of pure consciousness. The west tries to redeem pride to the peace of universal harmony. Both approaches sound good.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

A priest asked a wise man;
"What is man's greatest sin?"

"Seeing men as sinners" he replied.

Thank you! The priest asked a very wise man!!
Hahahaha, but don't post that in the Christian section!

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Honza

If indeed pride can be conquered. My take is that pride is intrinsic - even to enlightenment. Therefore all one can do is to *redeem* pride. Which is the western approach.

The east tries to pass beyond pride to the peace of pure consciousness. The west tries to redeem pride to the peace of universal harmony. Both approaches sound good.

There are more than only one way to Rome.

Freeing oneself from pride is the mission.

With the trait of pride present in one's personality-formation one has not attained true liberation, according to certain circles.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

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[color="Navy"]

Hi Miss H,

In most traditions, negative cognition and action are generally ascribed to ego/separative consciousness. However, pride may be seen to be more egregious, especially if a premium is placed on humility, simply because pride is more obvious in the social context and it is usually observed as a projection - not as internalized - and therefore has effects on others more directly, implying superiority which then justifies various forms of entitlement, aggression, oppression, condescension, etc., putting some burden on others which also becomes immediately apparent.

So socially, it may seem like many obvious collective ills are the result of pride and its secondary manifestations, while a number of other ego manifestations could be seen to maintain and promote internal suffering and debility, but those are not so directly obvious to, or impinging on others (jealousy for example).

Also, pride is a powerful defensive mechanism which often prevents the mitigation of ego in and of itself - probably the best reason for the ‘premium’ on it as the ‘big bad’.

It could also be that in some traditions such as Christianity, ‘pride’ may actually be the equivalent term for ‘ego’, which would explain this emphasis. (would be interesting to hear Molearner’s take on this)

Jyotir,

Yes, I must concur. I would consider pride to be the most visible manifestation of the ego. You are correct in pointing to the projective nature that pride assumes as opposed to internalizing it. There is a large difference between a thought that is thought as to a thought that is expressed. The expression of the ego(thru pride) is a way of giving life to the ego and bringing it to life......solidifying it, strengthening it and increases our enslavement to the power of the ego.

In Christian terms there are some very basic understandings concerning the ego. First, for me, is the thought expressed in James 1:17......paraphrased as "all that is good comes from above". Our spiritual nature should be that of a conduit.......an available vessel for which the Spirit pours thru. A lightbulb is of no use without electricity.......grass without moisture if lifeless, etc. Rather than allowing ourselves to express pride in our accomplishments or our possessions we are better served to express gratitude and acknowledgement of the source of our blessings. Gratitude must be accompanied by the sense of responsibility(to whom much is given, much is expected, etc.) Once again our purpose must be to serve as conduits rather than accumulators.

Secondly, James 4:6 refers to earlier scripture, saying: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble". In other words, pride is seen as that which prevents the inflow of grace(Spirit). An understanding of these principles can lead a thoughtful person to making conscious effort to avoid the pitfalls of pride. In the most simple of terms, one can initiate an effort to avoid saying "I am proud of this, etc." and replacing it with "I am thankful to this, etc.". This simple step will create the environment that will be more conducive to the inflow of grace(Spirit).

Finally, Jonah 2:8 is instructive for me......."Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs." IMO, the construction and acceptance of idols are the result of the hard work of the ego.

[Rah nam]

I have no idea what pride is.

[Ilovecats]

Well I'm a part of LGBT community and pride is a big thing there... you know pride parade, unicorns, rainbows and that kind of stuff Not all LGBT people agree that pride should be needed because why would someone be proud on their sexual orientation? Well maybe It really doesn't make sense. As I understand it, it is about being proud on oneself because a person broke through shame and accepted him or herself as who she/he is.

Can you be proud and not use pride as a limitation? Can't you be proud that you are a spirit in a beautiful human body and that you have the ability to express yourself on this Earth? I am proud and appreciative at the same time and I let others be. So if I am proud at my spiritual nature then I am somehow not spiritual?

I think it's not healthy to be proud if you are using it for the purpose of making yourself bigger in relations to others. But if you are proud that you are a spirit and if we are all spirits how can then pride be egoistic or limiting in these terms?

[IAmNemo]

Pride is like a medicine.
Taken in very small doses it will make you feel better when you not feeling well.
Taken in larger doses it will make you sick or kill you.
And someone who is well needs none at all.

The Virtue in the Vice is a good book that explains this well, in my opinion.

[SilentLegend]

I understand it a little more as I go through life, I see how it sticks to me when I try to get rid of it and it just won't go away.
I have seen how pride operates, and the more I learn hopefully I'll figure out the strategy to defeating it.