Depersonalization

[neil]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Of course, as I mature with age and grow into my spirituality, I tend to notice the subconscious "motives" of others when it comes to depersonalising me... and a Christmas baking session with my mother, is a great example of this...The total farsical hilarity of it would make for a very amusing sitcom.

My mother is overly cautious and careful about everything!...every...Little...detail of every little thing...enough to drive even the sanest person into total insanity!

A stroke 20 years ago has left her totally paralysed, so I am the one who must do all the mixing, cooking and baking, while she hangs around "supervising"..but she totally preempts every thought..every action I perform, inserting her own instructions every step of the way.

It's not like I have never made cocoa crackles or even a fruit cake before..in fact, I am pretty good at cooking and baking..better than she is, although she would never admit that.

So I go to heat up the copha in the microwave oven...she goes "only put it in the microwave for 30 seconds...You must be careful not to overheat the copha" and I am like 'thanks..but I know".

Then, she goes " you need to make sure the dry mixture is coated evenly..be careful when you mix it..and put it in the refrigerator as soon as you do that" and I am like "yes mum, thanks..but I know"..

So, she asks me to make a cake, using an electric mixer to blend the ingredients.."be careful not to have the mixer on too high, or the cake mix will splatter everywhere"....of course, I say "yeah, thanks for the advice, but I am already aware of that".

So, I get out the mixer and I say to her.."I will use the electric mixer on ONE condition...That you don't go into the loungeroom while I am mixing it, then attempt to talk to me from the next room while the mixer is on, then abuse me and tell me that I am going deaf because I cannot hear a single word you say...Okay?"

I mean, if she could follow me into the bathroom, she would tell me the "correct way" to empty my bladder...It is THAT bad! ...but she has always been like this...It is just getting worse as she ages and I can't really say anything, because I would tell her "if you want everything done "your way or the highway"..do it yourself!"...but she cannot.

So, instead, I said "do you trust me?... can't you let me just do this? I AM fully capable, you know..I know things..I may even SURPRISE you with what I can do!"

Then, of course she says "no, I do not trust you..and surprise me? I doubt it!"

To which I said " that is because, for my whole LIFE, you have never... NEVER given me any effing OPPORTUNITY to...It is way past the time that must change, because I just can't exist like this anymore!..I can't deal with your negative cr*p anymore... ENOUGH!"

Suffice to say, she scowled at me and huffed off into her room and now I have the kitchen all to myself! YAY!

....but from the examples I give in this thread, people can plainly see how the whole depersonalisation syndrome happens and what causes it..

..... and no matter what anybody else says, I KNOW that other people are responsible for the way I feel and act...It does NOT come from within myself, I do NOT "attract it" and there are no "lessons" to be learned from it and I do NOT need to look within myself to find out the reasons why others treat me the way they do.. because THEY have the problems, I don't.

Yes me again, hello....below i am really only responding to your last paragraph .

..but correct, you do not have to look inside of yourself to find a cause.
You only have to see that certain persons are unable to see that they are unlovingly disagreeable, & unable to change. For reasons that i have drawn to your attention on a few occasions.

You know that...i know you do...BUT you allow yourself to get upset because you can not accept them for who they are...also for reasons that i have that i have drawn to your attention on a few occasions.
And if they carry on to much you could stop having them at your home.
And if they can not be at your home to be assisted in life, and if the other disagreeable family members of yours can not assist her, then it is time for your mother to be living in a nursing home, and it would be due to her own faults, and you can come and go visiting her any time you please.

Come on you say that you are an intelligent person, the solution is a simple one

And so maybe what i have written is not on topic but there it is, just a little advice.
For your considerations
Regards Neil

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by neil

Yes me again, hello....below i am really only responding to your last paragraph .

..but correct, you do not have to look inside of yourself to find a cause.
You only have to see that certain persons are unable to see that they are unlovingly disagreeable, & unable to change. For reasons that i have drawn to your attention on a few occasions.

You know that...i know you do...BUT you allow yourself to get upset because you can not accept them for who they are...also for reasons that i have that i have drawn to your attention on a few occasions.
And if they carry on to much you could stop having them at your home.
And if they can not be at your home to be assisted in life, and if the other disagreeable family members of yours can not assist her, then it is time for your mother to be living in a nursing home, and it would be due to her own faults, and you can come and go visiting her any time you please.

Come on you say that you are an intelligent person, the solution is a simple one

And so maybe what i have written is not on topic but there it is, just a little advice.
For your considerations
Regards Neil

There are quite a few mitigating circumstances as to why she cannot be placed in a nursing home....so that is totally out of the question, but I thank God for small mercies....firstly, I only have to tolerate this for one week per month to give my brother some respite from this...secondly, she has one foot in the grave already and so I should learn how to humour her for the remaining time she has left on this planet.

I guess, my "spiritual growth" would thus consist of saying; "wow, I never knew how to make cocoa crackles!..thanks for telling me! whatever would I do without you?"

We are taught (spiritually) to be honest with ourselves and with others..but if that is going to cause undue stress and arguments, it is much better to lie and be dishonest just to "keep the peace" and make others happy by feeding into their gross delusions, because you are correct, they are never going to change and accept me for who I am...and accepting another for not accepting me, is difficult.

Thus, the depersonalisation just continues...As it is MEANT to.

[neil]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

There are quite a few mitigating circumstances as to why she cannot be placed in a nursing home....so that is totally out of the question, but I thank God for small mercies....firstly, I only have to tolerate this for one week per month to give my brother some respite from this...secondly, she has one foot in the grave already and so I should learn how to humour her for the remaining time she has left on this planet.

I guess, my "spiritual growth" would thus consist of saying; "wow, I never knew how to make cocoa crackles!..thanks for telling me! whatever would I do without you?"

We are taught (spiritually) to be honest with ourselves and with others..but if that is going to cause undue stress and arguments, it is much better to lie and be dishonest just to "keep the peace" and make others happy by feeding into their gross delusions, because you are correct, they are never going to change and accept me for who I am...and accepting another for not accepting me, is difficult.

Thus, the depersonalisation just continues...As it is MEANT to.

De-personalization...i can tell you, there is no way that i would want to be de-personalized.
I will transition into the life without the flesh with all of my personal self and personal memories.

I want to be remembered by past and the present friends and foes, as i have been and who i become in the future, worts and all..so to speak.

God created my blank soul and my parents gave it identity, and i cherish my personal identity worts and all..so to speak once more.

And so i will never let anyone de-personalize me..or i should say...OR AS IT READS IN THE OPENING PARAGRAPHS IN THE "PRAYER" IN THE PADGETT MESSAGES....

Quote..
Our Father, who art in heaven, we recognize:
That Thou Art–art all holy and loving and merciful, and that we are the children of Thy care AND NOT THE ""SUBSERVIENT SINFUL AND DEPRAVED CREATURES"" that our false teachers would have us believe.

That we are the greatest of Thy creations and the most wonderful of all Thy handiworks, and that we are the objects of Thy great Soul’s love and tenderest care.
...un quote..

I am refering to the words bolded in the first paragraph...WE ARE not the SUBSERVIENT, SINFUL and DEPRAVED CREATURES....that false teachers would have us believe.

In other words, we are WORTHY LITTLE MUNCHKINS.
AND THAT CAN BE REFERED TO ANY SITUATION...YES...who are the false teachers in your situation'S......firstly...YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR BROTHER, AND YOU CAN FILL IN THE REST FROM PLACES LIKE YOUR LOCAL SUPERMRKET ETC ETC.

SPECIAL REGARDS FROM ME...NEIL..SMILES EH.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by neil

De-personalization...i can tell you, there is no way that i would want to be de-personalized.
I will transition into the life without the flesh with all of my personal self and personal memories.

I want to be remembered by past and the present friends and foes, as i have been and who i become in the future, worts and all..so to speak.

God created my blank soul and my parents gave it identity, and i cherish my personal identity worts and all..so to speak once more.

And so i will never let anyone de-personalize me..or i should say...OR AS IT READS IN THE OPENING PARAGRAPHS IN THE "PRAYER" IN THE PADGETT MESSAGES....

Quote..
Our Father, who art in heaven, we recognize:
That Thou Art–art all holy and loving and merciful, and that we are the children of Thy care AND NOT THE ""SUBSERVIENT SINFUL AND DEPRAVED CREATURES"" that our false teachers would have us believe.

That we are the greatest of Thy creations and the most wonderful of all Thy handiworks, and that we are the objects of Thy great Soul’s love and tenderest care.
...un quote..

I am refering to the words bolded in the first paragraph...WE ARE not the SUBSERVIENT, SINFUL and DEPRAVED CREATURES....that false teachers would have us believe.

In other words, we are WORTHY LITTLE MUNCHKINS.
AND THAT CAN BE REFERED TO ANY SITUATION...YES...who are the false teachers in your situation'S......firstly...YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR BROTHER, AND YOU CAN FILL IN THE REST FROM PLACES LIKE YOUR LOCAL SUPERMRKET ETC ETC.

SPECIAL REGARDS FROM ME...NEIL..SMILES EH.

True...they are everywhere, there is no avoiding them, unless one wishes to remain in total seclusion for the rest of one's life.

One of those "mitigating circumstances"....

My mother is quite wealthy..and mostly due to the fact she has been a miser all her life. She has saved for a "rainy day" since she got married, but the "rainy day" would have to resemble Noah's flood before she would spend any of it.

Suffice to say, she has a nice little "nest egg"...

Now, she does NOT want to be put into a nursing home...It is against her express wishes....she wants to die at home and with dignity.

She also said that if either myself or my brother put her in a nursing home, she would get the best lawyers and cut us BOTH out of her will.

Now, that does not phase me whatsoever...Being a spiritual person, money means absolutely nothing to me.....Nothing! (many and most other "spiritual people" find this very difficult to understand)...My brother, however, is a materialist - I sometimes chide him for being one, and he says to me "get back to me when you have a 500k mortgage and two teenage kids"...I can see his point...good thing I chose the life of a renunciant, so I wouldn't be caught up in that situation...

Another saving grace I have is my Higher Self...who kept me awake last night doing this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sele...tory_attention

I understand that due to my Autism, I have no "sensory filter" so I see, hear, feel etc EVERYTHING! which leads to massive overwhelming and often times, so much, I end up in a fetal position in the corner, sucking my thumb...

However, selective audio attention is a LEARNED process...and it just takes more practice for some to be able to master it.... until they learn how to ignore another person totally because they can see lips move, but all they hear is "blah blah blah".

[cdoliveira]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I can only go by personal experience, and how I am personally affected by certain things which don't affect others...yet, this is also one way out of depersonalisation.

For example, I have CPTSD (on top of my Autism) and certain things will give me a full blown panic attack... right there, on the spot and the main trigger or the main tipping point, seems to be when anybody questions my actions or my motives, thus forcing me to be held "responsible" and "accountable" (to everybody else EXCEPT myself) when I am NOT..and that is a personal strength and not a personal weakness.

See, my parents and my ex husband were the classic interrogator, controlling personality types..whenever I would do ANYTHING...even go to the bathroom, I would get; "what are you doing?"..."where are you going?"..."how long will you be?" Thing is, society can ask personal questions like that, because "mind your own f***ing business" is considered to be a very rude and offensive response.

There is also this thing (or there was when I was growing up) that "insanity" is defined by not knowing the difference between "right" and "wrong" - when all that was a matter of subjective, personal perspective and opinion ANYWAY...and also, not taking any responsibility for the things we do...and of COURSE we don't, because responsibility comes with endless justifications, and people are less interested in finding out the reasons for your actions and more interested in getting their foot inside your mental door and trying to steal and vampire your energy, by telling you all the reasons you may have for performing that action is based upon a faulty premise, according to THEM...and then they want to sit there and argue with you for half an hour, stopping you from performing any action WHATSOEVER, which is what they want.

...and this is why I have panic attacks. Thank God the "age of entitlement" happened when it did...I would have preferred it 40 years ago, but oh well, better late than never...So "because I am fully entitled to under the law" has become my answer for anybody seeking justification for my actions...However, I had to totally lose myself and find a "different self" to get to the point that I am at now...and I guess the reason why people behave like they do, is because they had parents who confused "consideration" with "interrogation" then, whenever you say "I am sorry, but that is private", the parent will go "I raised you to be honest...What are you hiding from me?...You are hiding something and I MUST know what that is...I MUST!...only criminals and the mentally insane keep secrets from their families" and so, if I wanted any kind of personality, I would have to admit to being one or the other, ONLY to shut my parents up and stop the verbal barrage of gaslighting abuse....in the end, after telling people what they WANTED to hear, so they would leave me alone to "do my own thing", I learned how to totally depersonalise and disassociate as a mental and emotional "survival mechanism"...It has its spiritual benefits though, and being able to totally lose the attachment to the ego is the main one, when one can insult, depreciate and abuse oneself SO much, and yet, there is no emotions attached.. because years of verbal abuse has caused an almost TOTAL desensitisation to take place and in a way, that is very good...It clears the path ahead so much easier...However "having a job" will be difficult, unless I become SELF employed.

This is just amazing. I can relate so much to that... My entire life I've been trying to please others (specially my parents, who are very controlling and like to tell me how to live my live). This might explain why I feel this way, specially here at my job (where my boss is SUPER demanding and super controlling). Since I cannot take it anymore, I will be quitting on the 11th/18th february and get back on my personal plans (opening my handbag shop and teaching english).

Thanks a lot to all replies here, you guys are amazing and helped me a lot.

[Michelle11]

It is not lost on me that I happened upon this thread on the same day I came across an article online titled, Cultivating the Direct Experience of The Self https://www.bentinhomassaro.com/read...ce-of-the-self

The article talks about shifting from a thinking mind to noticing our being. From a focus on what we see in the world and what we are doing to a focus on observing our human self interacting in the world. I had not done much study on depersonalization and had to look it up to understand what this thread was but it struck me as similar to something I have experienced my whole life. I know for myself I spent a lot of time feeling detached from my human experience. In a sort of observer state watching the world as opposed to participating in it. I thought this meant I was self aware but suspect it really just meant I was aware of myself. I would get lost from time to time in the human experience when I am doing a task or engaged in interacting with someone but on a general basis I spend most of my life trying to detach from the human experience. This is partly due to being born with stronger than normal emotions or as a highly sensitive person and a father who was overly critical and who came off to me as angry all the time. I was afraid of him and I suspect I wanted to escape life as a means to get away from suffering from constant fear of the world and everyone in it. I learned to cope well enough, suppressing my emotions as best I could and doing my best to fit in and not upset people by being conforming and accommodating but I also did everything in my power to try and sit life out but had no clue in the process of doing that I was actually getting closer to being in touch with my true self. Detaching from my human self was out of necessity, out of a desire to stop the suffering of feeling emotionally distressed all the time but I can't say that I got to the depersonalization state but it seems close and so I thought I would share the article and see if it helps you. I suspect it is possible people who are in the depersonalization state can get in touch with their true nature much easier than those who are totally wrapped up mentally in the human drama. In any event, I spent most of my life labeling myself as broken, dysfunctional and needing repair which really colored how I saw myself. And I spent the rest of my time being a sort of robot, doing what I was told when I was told it so as not to get into trouble. Though I was never really able to articulate it, it left me feeling like I wasn't living my life and so maybe life didn't seem worth living and I just wanted to sit it out. I thought all of it meant I was damaged and incapable of being human but I can now see the benefits of my early experience and how it has given me the opportunity to know my true nature outside the human self that is Michelle. A human person that responds to life based on early conditioning but isn't who I really am. And that in the grand scheme of things this may all be a part of our unfolding. Nothing is wrong. It's all just a part of the process. Maybe your situation is similar. Hope the article helps.

[cdoliveira]

Originally Posted by Michelle11

It is not lost on me that I happened upon this thread on the same day I came across an article online titled, Cultivating the Direct Experience of The Self https://www.bentinhomassaro.com/read...ce-of-the-self

The article talks about shifting from a thinking mind to noticing our being. From a focus on what we see in the world and what we are doing to a focus on observing our human self interacting in the world. I had not done much study on depersonalization and had to look it up to understand what this thread was but it struck me as similar to something I have experienced my whole life. I know for myself I spent a lot of time feeling detached from my human experience. In a sort of observer state watching the world as opposed to participating in it. I thought this meant I was self aware but suspect it really just meant I was aware of myself. I would get lost from time to time in the human experience when I am doing a task or engaged in interacting with someone but on a general basis I spend most of my life trying to detach from the human experience. This is partly due to being born with stronger than normal emotions or as a highly sensitive person and a father who was overly critical and who came off to me as angry all the time. I was afraid of him and I suspect I wanted to escape life as a means to get away from suffering from constant fear of the world and everyone in it. I learned to cope well enough, suppressing my emotions as best I could and doing my best to fit in and not upset people by being conforming and accommodating but I also did everything in my power to try and sit life out but had no clue in the process of doing that I was actually getting closer to being in touch with my true self. Detaching from my human self was out of necessity, out of a desire to stop the suffering of feeling emotionally distressed all the time but I can't say that I got to the depersonalization state but it seems close and so I thought I would share the article and see if it helps you. I suspect it is possible people who are in the depersonalization state can get in touch with their true nature much easier than those who are totally wrapped up mentally in the human drama. In any event, I spent most of my life labeling myself as broken, dysfunctional and needing repair which really colored how I saw myself. And I spent the rest of my time being a sort of robot, doing what I was told when I was told it so as not to get into trouble. Though I was never really able to articulate it, it left me feeling like I wasn't living my life and so maybe life didn't seem worth living and I just wanted to sit it out. I thought all of it meant I was damaged and incapable of being human but I can now see the benefits of my early experience and how it has given me the opportunity to know my true nature outside the human self that is Michelle. A human person that responds to life based on early conditioning but isn't who I really am. And that in the grand scheme of things this may all be a part of our unfolding. Nothing is wrong. It's all just a part of the process. Maybe your situation is similar. Hope the article helps.

omgggg

thats exactly what I feel!!!! THANKS SO MUCH FOR THAT

quoting the article "If you become aware of the fact that you are currently looking or seeing, you will increase the awareness of seeing and you will find that objects will start leaving your attention—even if only for a few seconds at a time. For a few seconds, the world of objects disappears and the sense of a deeper me or the sense I exist, I am, I am seeing (not the words but the direct experience of I AM) becomes aware of itself. "

thats what I feel!! It is so weird but now I will try to look at it with another perspective!! Thanks so much for this

[LadyMay]

As an addition to my previous post here, I have an adrenal problem where my body doesn’t make enough stress hormones anymore to keep me going. I have to substitute with steroids and yesterday I did not take as much as I was meant to and I dissociated extremely badly to the point I lost consciousness. Just to let it be known that some things are not always mental but sometimes symptoms of more serious issues. I know mine is in part down to mental issues but I learned there is definitely the physical side of things too.

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

We are taught (spiritually) to be honest with ourselves and with others..but if that is going to cause undue stress and arguments, it is much better to lie and be dishonest just to "keep the peace" and make others happy by feeding into their gross delusions, because you are correct, they are never going to change and accept me for who I am...and accepting another for not accepting me, is difficult.

Thus, the depersonalisation just continues...As it is MEANT to.

SD - What you said here reminds me of a recent family gathering. Our parents are 80 and as much as we all hope and pray our mother won't have yet another holiday family party, it does no good. Everyone knows not to disappoint mom and so we all attend.

This year tensions were high among all of the siblings. Everyone came in just reeling to be set off by a fellow sibling. Just about everyone at the gathering got into it with another. It was as if we we're all tired of living the lie that we enjoy coming together once a year to make mom happy.

The next day I found myself telling mom not to worry about siblings not getting along and that even though we all grew up together, as adults we're all very different from one another now and we're bound to misinterpret the intentions of fellow siblings and get defensive.

But none of us is brave enough to tell the truth and just not go, so we perpetuate a lie to keep another family member happy and feeling loved and appreciated.