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  #1  
Old 15-02-2020, 04:29 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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On being agreeable to one another

begin rant
------------------------

Much as we like being in agreement with each other, the powers that be seem to think that getting the agreement of each other about what is the 'real' truth is a dangerous thing. First time that was mentioned was at babylon, when 'God' made different 'languages' precisely so there would be no agreement about what should be considered real and what should not. Apparently to prevent us from being agreeable enough to each other to get back together and figure out how to finish building a 'tower' to 'heaven'?

Of course we would all rally against such an idea if we could accept it... how could something as endearing as having the agreement of others be so bad? but the fact is the events in question are recorded as occurring no matter HOW we want to spin them. People do seem to have an endless desire for vanity and lies though so...

So anyway we don't get to know the 'real' truth but we do all get to fight to maintain our own version of what that 'truth' might look like - you see it in nations around the world each trying to maintain their own way of life at the expense of everyone else, and you see it in individuals trying to propagate the 'correct' way of being or thinking to those around them again at other's expense. It seems carefully balanced though so that no one party can get the upper hand and then keep it indefinitely. Endless Roller Coaster sigh.

------------------------------
end rant
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  #2  
Old 15-02-2020, 04:51 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
Free-will is every life form's birth right; that makes agreement less than improbable.

So, apply:
Quote:
Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #3  
Old 15-02-2020, 05:27 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
... babylon, when 'God' made different 'languages' precisely so there would be no agreement about what should be considered real and what should not ...

Do you find that people are more in agreement now, with the almost universal spread of the English language, and the internet? Obviously not!
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #4  
Old 15-02-2020, 06:27 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,383
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Do you find that people are more in agreement now, with the almost universal spread of the English language, and the internet? Obviously not!

hehehe... from what I see it isn't from lack of trying... something else is getting in the way lol!
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  #5  
Old 15-02-2020, 06:46 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
begin rant
------------------------

Much as we like being in agreement with each other, the powers that be seem to think that getting the agreement of each other about what is the 'real' truth is a dangerous thing. First time that was mentioned was at babylon, when 'God' made different 'languages' precisely so there would be no agreement about what should be considered real and what should not. Apparently to prevent us from being agreeable enough to each other to get back together and figure out how to finish building a 'tower' to 'heaven'?

Of course we would all rally against such an idea if we could accept it... how could something as endearing as having the agreement of others be so bad? but the fact is the events in question are recorded as occurring no matter HOW we want to spin them. People do seem to have an endless desire for vanity and lies though so...

So anyway we don't get to know the 'real' truth but we do all get to fight to maintain our own version of what that 'truth' might look like - you see it in nations around the world each trying to maintain their own way of life at the expense of everyone else, and you see it in individuals trying to propagate the 'correct' way of being or thinking to those around them again at other's expense. It seems carefully balanced though so that no one party can get the upper hand and then keep it indefinitely. Endless Roller Coaster sigh.

------------------------------
end rant
How I see it..

Even though we were given different "languages" (metaphorically of course), means that we never can or ever will be in full agreement over what we consider to be objectively true from any given subjective viewpoint.

Thus, the only way to agree with everyone would be to "agree to disagree" thus finding the unity within the diversity itself.

Of course there will be those who may speak the same "language" at any given time, however this could never be applied in general terms, only relativistic terms according to group consensus.

For you see, it was the hubris of mankind to build the tower of Babel in the first place...just like Icarus flying too close to the sun.

Understanding that it is our individual and unique experiences according to perception and cognition which "separates" us, the challenge for mankind...as it has been since the dawn of time...is to find that which we all have in common and it is not easy...well at least not from any material perspective or understanding because one needs to have the tower to the heavens already built to get it.

It is also why my favourite Tarot card is and always has been The Tower.
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  #6  
Old 15-02-2020, 07:26 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
How I see it..

Even though we were given different "languages" (metaphorically of course), means that we never can or ever will be in full agreement over what we consider to be objectively true from any given subjective viewpoint.

Thus, the only way to agree with everyone would be to "agree to disagree" thus finding the unity within the diversity itself.

Of course there will be those who may speak the same "language" at any given time, however this could never be applied in general terms, only relativistic terms according to group consensus.

For you see, it was the hubris of mankind to build the tower of Babel in the first place...just like Icarus flying too close to the sun.

Understanding that it is our individual and unique experiences according to perception and cognition which "separates" us, the challenge for mankind...as it has been since the dawn of time...is to find that which we all have in common and it is not easy...well at least not from any material perspective or understanding because one needs to have the tower to the heavens already built to get it.

It is also why my favourite Tarot card is and always has been The Tower.

I was wondering if the fact of subjective disagreement about whatever we should want to consider objective wasn't the point of what is trying to be said... maybe they are deliberately trying to divorce us from that which we want?

Meanwhile, the idea of 'agreeing to disagree' makes me feel sick for whatever reason...

That is strange that you like towers, earlier I was going to write another thread about 'towers' but decided I was being over the top then gave up. maybe I will think about revisiting it tomorrow to see what your thoughts on that are.... it is getting late now though
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  #7  
Old 15-02-2020, 07:38 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
I was wondering if the fact of subjective disagreement about whatever we should want to consider objective wasn't the point of what is trying to be said... maybe they are deliberately trying to divorce us from that which we want?

Meanwhile, the idea of 'agreeing to disagree' makes me feel sick for whatever reason...

That is strange that you like towers, earlier I was going to write another thread about 'towers' but decided I was being over the top then gave up. maybe I will think about revisiting it tomorrow to see what your thoughts on that are.... it is getting late now though
Yes, it is getting late and I shall expound further another time..but for now..

The most difficult thing to be able to do for anybody is to hold two opposing concepts to be true simultaneously.

Einstein noted that it was the "hallmark of genius" whilst the sages claim it to be the "indicator of Enlightenment".

It is also why it is said that the path of truth is as narrow as the edge of a razor because not many are able to walk that path...that perspective from where everyone is right and yet nobody is.

I was also going to speak of another metaphor which relates according to my culture, as the Tower of Babel doesn't really cut it..

It concerns the tale of the six blind men and the Elephant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Anyway, enough for now, but if you make the thread about The Tower, I shall contribute.
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  #8  
Old 15-02-2020, 01:51 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
begin rant
------------------------

Much as we like being in agreement with each other, the powers that be seem to think that getting the agreement of each other about what is the 'real' truth is a dangerous thing. First time that was mentioned was at babylon, when 'God' made different 'languages' precisely so there would be no agreement about what should be considered real and what should not. Apparently to prevent us from being agreeable enough to each other to get back together and figure out how to finish building a 'tower' to 'heaven'?

Of course we would all rally against such an idea if we could accept it... how could something as endearing as having the agreement of others be so bad? but the fact is the events in question are recorded as occurring no matter HOW we want to spin them. People do seem to have an endless desire for vanity and lies though so...

So anyway we don't get to know the 'real' truth but we do all get to fight to maintain our own version of what that 'truth' might look like - you see it in nations around the world each trying to maintain their own way of life at the expense of everyone else, and you see it in individuals trying to propagate the 'correct' way of being or thinking to those around them again at other's expense. It seems carefully balanced though so that no one party can get the upper hand and then keep it indefinitely. Endless Roller Coaster sigh.

------------------------------
end rant

It is always good to hear others agree with me. It has a tendency to make me think I am right. If everybody agreed with me, then we would all agree with each other, and with nobody to disagree, we would all feel like we finally have the 'real' truth. Knowing the 'real' truth, we might feel like we are now equal to God. We don't need God, and though we may tolerate nature, we don't need it, we can run things ourselves, after all, we have and understand the truth. I suppose not everybody has to have the truth, just most of those around me, the rest are deluded. We can tolerate them to some degree, but if they start becoming powerful, then they become a threat to our understanding of the 'real' truth and must be eliminated. As long as most of those around me agree with me, then I will know I must have the 'real' truth, and armed with that truth I can build a tower as tall as I like. Built with the knowledge of the truth, our tower will be impervious to the forces of nature.

If it did ever fall, it would have to be the work of snowball and the rest of those deluded others. Wouldn't you agree?
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  #9  
Old 15-02-2020, 02:02 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Do you find that people are more in agreement now, with the almost universal spread of the English language, and the internet? Obviously not!
We used to kill each other over geographical differences. Now that we can understand each other, and the world has shrunk, we can talk at each other whenever we want, and can kill each other over ideological differences. Of course, not killing each other as fast as we used to, we have grown in numbers and are now pretty much killing nature and its ability to sustain us. But really, nature is nice to look at, but with all we now know, do we really need it anymore?
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  #10  
Old 15-02-2020, 03:27 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,383
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
It is always good to hear others agree with me. It has a tendency to make me think I am right. If everybody agreed with me, then we would all agree with each other, and with nobody to disagree, we would all feel like we finally have the 'real' truth. Knowing the 'real' truth, we might feel like we are now equal to God. We don't need God, and though we may tolerate nature, we don't need it, we can run things ourselves, after all, we have and understand the truth. I suppose not everybody has to have the truth, just most of those around me, the rest are deluded. We can tolerate them to some degree, but if they start becoming powerful, then they become a threat to our understanding of the 'real' truth and must be eliminated. As long as most of those around me agree with me, then I will know I must have the 'real' truth, and armed with that truth I can build a tower as tall as I like. Built with the knowledge of the truth, our tower will be impervious to the forces of nature.



If it did ever fall, it would have to be the work of snowball and the rest of those deluded others. Wouldn't you agree?

personally, I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying... This was a fun rant to read though lol!
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