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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #11  
Old 02-04-2020, 08:50 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Things like that story above has a VERY powerful message.....but only IF one has the eyes to see and read into it the intended message the universe gives them...because for everyone else, it is going to be "who cares?... people are people, man! Get over it".....some of us just cannot "get over it" and we are the schizophrenic ones.
"Nihil illegitamus carborundum." I didn't.
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:44 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kishore
Why it is coinciding and what is the remedy to cure those side effects or where should people go for solving those?
I was asked by one of my mental heath service users to accompany her to see her friend, she needed the moral support. I walked into the room to see a woman lying there in a full body splint and nothing more. We spent over two hours talking, holding her hand, trying to give her at least a little bit of comfort. She'd jumped off a bridge because God told her to do it, he wanted her to come to him and she heard his voice so clearly. Then there was the nicest guy you could meet who went full-blown psycho on his family because of a mix-up with his medications. He wrecked the house and was about to stab his wife when he's son stepped in between them, and something snapped him back into place. he said he was a prisoner in his own body and couldn't do anything about it, he had no control but could only watch. His family was his life. Or the young woman who took an episode and I ended up having her cower in a corner with fear in a puddle of her own urine rather than run out into a stream of fast traffic. I can only imagine that she saw me as the devil incarnate, judging by her reaction to me. That was due to chemical imbalances in her brain, and when she was on the proper medication she was witty, humerous and very intelligent.

This is the reality beyond books, religious texts and YouTubes.

This is 'real Life' Spirituality, this is how others experience their existential reality outside of the comfort zone of a 'sane mind'. The talk of reality and mental health issues is often nothing more than people having opinions as facts of a reality they couldn't even begin to imagine. People have slated me before because I've mentioned these "poor Souls" but they are a part of this reality too.

There are underpinning reasons for people's beliefs that nobody wants to explore.
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:17 AM
jay.kishan jay.kishan is offline
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Fish

I have high regard for all the people out here and their opinions on the subject.

I have not read about this topic BUT, as many, i have been through this horror.
For a long time, there was this everlasting debate between two people in the same mind. One so called "Spiritual" and one the me 'Old Self'

Confusions and this internal chatter was so high at times that i had to sit alone with my hands on my head. I was very confused but how, what is happening and what should i do.

I did not depend on any teacher, philosopher, guru mantra or meditation. I was just observing my chatter, the BOTH, Spiritual and the old self.
The spiritual self was having much fun, with the hallucinations, meeting Angels, always telling me the right action and so on. While the old self was clinging to old habits so there was this endless chatter and inner conflict in the same person. Should i do , or should i not ? Control my anger ? Or let it go ? Conflict in everything that i did

Sir, the spiritual self, or the old self which i was telling right now, was just my illusion. Which thought created.
And i meditated, had experiences lol and so on , which was ACTUALLY feeding the same ego but with a different name called 'Spiritual'

This is how, I deceived my self, this is how a normal person deceives himself.
The Ego becomes Spiritual. Nothing else.

Spirituality begins, when all dualities and tricks of mind are understood. Then the real meditation begins, which has no CENTER, CONTROLLER, OR THE ONE DOING THE MEDITATION. When mind is silent, you are IN MEDITATION. You then dont have to sit and breathe and stand on your hands to do yoga to have a silent mind. How self takes positions to protect itself. Seeks shelter in meditations and so called spiritual stuff. Which is nothing but the SAME EGO DOING MEDITATIONS, APPLYING FORMULAS, TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING.

And the irony ? Meditation with the same confused mind. ! and then we pretend we are spiritual. The ego pretends. And WE IDENTIFY WITH IT.


This is my own journey, right or wrong i dont know. Science supports if or not. I dont know. Will people agree ? I dont know, Most are deceiving themselves like i was . Maybe i am still :)

SO I NEVER TAKE SEHLTER IN ANY BELIEF.

5th dimension, angels . All projection of thought. I am a hindu. Ill see Shiva, a christian will see Jesus, and buddhist will se Buddah. Obviously, we will have visions because this is what we a re expecting, this is why we are meditating. The mind will CREATE AN EXPERIENCE.


Sir, keeping aside all this. I just want to focus on this life, 3d or 4d what you may call. Just living with awareness. And my understanding of this WHOLE DRAMA, was exposed infront of me by my own self. So NOW, my mind is better, The spiritual SELF is exposed. so now the chatter is automatically less.

Far less actually :)

Last edited by jay.kishan : 02-04-2020 at 11:21 AM.
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:37 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
"Nihil illegitamus carborundum." I didn't.
I just cannot help it and I don't know what to do about that either.

I've spent many years in psychotherapy, taking various meds trying not to let the sleeping fools "grind me down" and get to me but so far, nothing has worked. It just cuts way too deep because I know they can do/be way better, but they consciously choose not to.

Yeah, I can't stop letting it getting to me and I also feel totally powerless to do anything about that....so what does one do when all the behavioural therapy doesn't work? all the meds don't work? mindfulness and meditation doesn't work? "Father, forgive them" doesn't work? "The universe is Maya" doesn't work? and you still feel the majority of people are no better than mindless, clueless imbeciles and you have lost all hope for the future of mankind and you find it utterly depressing and soul destroying...what then?
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2020, 12:14 PM
jay.kishan jay.kishan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I just cannot help it and I don't know what to do about that either.

I've spent many years in psychotherapy, taking various meds trying not to let the sleeping fools "grind me down" and get to me but so far, nothing has worked. It just cuts way too deep because I know they can do/be way better, but they consciously choose not to.

Yeah, I can't stop letting it getting to me and I also feel totally powerless to do anything about that....so what does one do when all the behavioural therapy doesn't work? all the meds don't work? mindfulness and meditation doesn't work? "Father, forgive them" doesn't work? "The universe is Maya" doesn't work? and you still feel the majority of people are no better than mindless, clueless imbeciles and you have lost all hope for the future of mankind and you find it utterly depressing and soul destroying...what then?


Shivani Didi,

I may be very young to address this but i will try to say something in continuation.

Followed your message, did everything, years of meditations, therapies, meds, Everything. Dosent work . Every concept, of maya, enlightenment that we are "Divine Spirit Beings" dosent work.

Then what is one left with ? What is left ?
I think one is left with A FACT. THAT ONE IS DISORDERED.

After that years of journey we realize that we CAN NOT DO ANYTHING, SINCE WE OURSELVES ARE DISORDERED. So the meds meditations and all those things dosent work.

Can i see the fact that i am disordered and stay with that ? See that ?
Without suppressing or having any ideas about it ? That i should do this that , ignore it, its just my mind.

I think didi, this way, the problem reveals itself. If we TRULY ASK THIS QUESTION TO OURSELVES THAT AFTER EVERYTHING I HAVE TRIED HAVENT WORKED. I WILL FIRST STOP DOING ANYTHING.

Thats the state.

Just like if i am in a forest, as soon as i feel i am going wrong, my first response is to stop, SEE, and then move.

So its that state of STOPPING, and seeing whats around, without doing or having ideas about it
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2020, 12:22 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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The whole kicker, of course, is I know that I am "better" than they are...and yet, I am not supposed to be thinking it ..or admitting it.. because "spiritual humility" dictates this as being the greatest sin according to the ego..and yet, I find myself in comparitive mode on the subconscious level...I am not even consciously aware that this is happening until after the realisation hits that it is a true observation...even though it is one I should not be observing in the first place...and that is the hardest thing to deal with here....and that is also when the dissociation begins because what is "spiritual" to one personally, may not fit any standard definition "by the book" in regards to any association whatsoever...and yet, you also realise that you are nothing like "them" either because you are "better than them" and as soon as the thought comes, so does the guilt for thinking it ...and yet, if there was no guilt attached to the obvious statement of truth, I would be able to get beyond this "spiritual ego".... whatever that is...
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  #17  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:00 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay.kishan
Shivani Didi,

I may be very young to address this but i will try to say something in continuation.

Followed your message, did everything, years of meditations, therapies, meds, Everything. Dosent work . Every concept, of maya, enlightenment that we are "Divine Spirit Beings" dosent work.

Then what is one left with ? What is left ?
I think one is left with A FACT. THAT ONE IS DISORDERED.

After that years of journey we realize that we CAN NOT DO ANYTHING, SINCE WE OURSELVES ARE DISORDERED. So the meds meditations and all those things dosent work.

Can i see the fact that i am disordered and stay with that ? See that ?
Without suppressing or having any ideas about it ? That i should do this that , ignore it, its just my mind.

I think didi, this way, the problem reveals itself. If we TRULY ASK THIS QUESTION TO OURSELVES THAT AFTER EVERYTHING I HAVE TRIED HAVENT WORKED. I WILL FIRST STOP DOING ANYTHING.

Thats the state.

Just like if i am in a forest, as soon as i feel i am going wrong, my first response is to stop, SEE, and then move.

So its that state of STOPPING, and seeing whats around, without doing or having ideas about it
Yes, Jay Bhaiya....I understand.

It is the relevance we place upon our own existence as an existential being that leads to the disorder...then one realises what is really behind it all.

For example...the ONLY time that I am not in "disorder" is during kirtan. When I am in trance, I am not aware of my surroundings...therefore, I am also not aware of what anybody ELSE does in it...I couldn't care less.

Unlike many spiritual people, I have not reached that stage where there is no separation between "self" and "other" yet. I mean, deep down I realise that we are all part and parcel of the Divine...I understand we are all Brahman...Aham Brahmasmi...and all that, but that doesn't relate WHATSOEVER to this world I live in on any empirical, supramental level...I have not made THAT connection yet...and so, individual personalities are what makes people separate from each other and unique...I am still at THAT level of things..

Anyway..for years I played tabla and harmonium...went into Sankirtan...went into ecstacy... haven't been there for many years because I moved hundreds of miles away from that whole "scene" and doing it online just isn't the same...I DON'T GET ANY "VIBES" IF THE CROWD IS VIRTUAL...I need the "real deal"... yet online stuff just adds more illusion to what was already illusory to begin with.

If I look within, THIS is the whole problem...I would love to sing praises to God again...and I should have gone out of my way to do so while I still had that opportunity...and now I am totally wracked with guilt because I did not...and probably will never get another chance....and so, I take it out on others who believe that being "self righteous" and shaming/humiliating others publicly and bearing false witness against their neighbor gives them a reason for their whole existence on this planet when before they had none.

No wonder people misbehave, flout the rules and give the "middle finger" to them...where if everybody minded their own god-damned business and stopped trying to play the whole "civil cop game" egged on by government, the world wouldn't BE in this mess!

So that's pretty much what has riled me up and why I am so DISORDERED because only Shiva can bring order to my life and He has pretty much "left the building".
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I am the creator of my own reality, so please don't get offended if I refuse to allow you to be the creator of it instead of focusing on creating your own. Thanks.
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:17 PM
jay.kishan jay.kishan is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 123
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Yes, Jay Bhaiya....I understand.

It is the relevance we place upon our own existence as an existential being that leads to the disorder...then one realises what is really behind it all.

For example...the ONLY time that I am not in "disorder" is during kirtan. When I am in trance, I am not aware of my surroundings...therefore, I am also not aware of what anybody ELSE does in it...I couldn't care less.

Unlike many spiritual people, I have not reached that stage where there is no separation between "self" and "other" yet. I mean, deep down I realise that we are all part and parcel of the Divine...I understand we are all Brahman...Aham Brahmasmi...and all that, but that doesn't relate WHATSOEVER to this world I live in on any empirical, supramental level...I have not made THAT connection yet...and so, individual personalities are what makes people separate from each other and unique...I am still at THAT level of things..

Anyway..for years I played tabla and harmonium...went into Sankirtan...went into ecstacy... haven't been there for many years because I moved hundreds of miles away from that whole "scene" and doing it online just isn't the same...I DON'T GET ANY "VIBES" IF THE CROWD IS VIRTUAL...I need the "real deal"... yet online stuff just adds more illusion to what was already illusory to begin with.

If I look within, THIS is the whole problem...I would love to sing praises to God again...and I should have gone out of my way to do so while I still had that opportunity...and now I am totally wracked with guilt because I did not...and probably will never get another chance....and so, I take it out on others who believe that being "self righteous" and shaming/humiliating others publicly and bearing false witness against their neighbor gives them a reason for their whole existence on this planet when before they had none.

No wonder people misbehave, flout the rules and give the "middle finger" to them...where if everybody minded their own god-damned business and stopped trying to play the whole "civil cop game" egged on by government, the world wouldn't BE in this mess!

So that's pretty much what has riled me up and why I am so DISORDERED because only Shiva can bring order to my life and He has pretty much "left the building".


Didi you said you havent reached that stage where there is not separation between self and other.

You mentioned you love playing tabla, doing kritan, went into ecstasy.

When there is love, when you really love doing something and you do that. Is there any sense of SELF left in you ? WHILE YOU ARE DOING ALL THIS ?

Is there any experiencer who plays the tabla ? Or is it a flow of escatsy with no sense of self ?

This is what love is ma'am.
"The path of love is very narrow, only ONE shall pass"

This deeply means when there is love, there is NO OTHER. This could be with a person or meditation or kritan or tabla.

Foundation of existence is love, without love, one cannot comprehend. Because it is the only thing which dissolves the I. And HENCE THE HAVOC
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2020, 01:40 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay.kishan
Didi you said you havent reached that stage where there is not separation between self and other.

You mentioned you love playing tabla, doing kritan, went into ecstasy.

When there is love, when you really love doing something and you do that. Is there any sense of SELF left in you ? WHILE YOU ARE DOING ALL THIS ?

Is there any experiencer who plays the tabla ? Or is it a flow of escatsy with no sense of self ?

This is what love is ma'am.
"The path of love is very narrow, only ONE shall pass"

This deeply means when there is love, there is NO OTHER. This could be with a person or meditation or kritan or tabla.

Foundation of existence is love, without love, one cannot comprehend. Because it is the only thing which dissolves the I. And HENCE THE HAVOC
Exactly.

I totally flourish within the ashram scene...where there are many acting as one towards the shared experience of there being no separation...I really and honestly miss that.

I feel for those who actually ARE pious and go to the temple...and now all temples are closed..all churches are closed...so those who DO find they need such things cannot partake in that either...they have to do it online.

I was hesitant to make the correlation in regards to having sex, but it's the only analogy that fits here...it is the difference between physically engaging in the act vs virtually engaging in the act...can any comparison be made? Really?

I don't know where the love is or where it has gone...I would just like it to come back...but wanting it to come back isn't going to make it happen...it is just "wishful thinking" now....like that river one can never step in twice...and this is what it feels like.

I really.. REALLY need a Guru...but not an "online guru" because I don't get that sense of "interaction" if I am relating through an electronic medium and it is like I have lost that "reference point" where I am able to relate to anything at all pretty much....and while this may be beneficial, I just feel empty, cold and numb..like a fish out of water that didn't realise it needed to swim or to breathe until now.
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I am the creator of my own reality, so please don't get offended if I refuse to allow you to be the creator of it instead of focusing on creating your own. Thanks.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2020, 08:06 PM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I just cannot help it and I don't know what to do about that either.

I've spent many years in psychotherapy, taking various meds trying not to let the sleeping fools "grind me down" and get to me but so far, nothing has worked. It just cuts way too deep because I know they can do/be way better, but they consciously choose not to.

Yeah, I can't stop letting it getting to me and I also feel totally powerless to do anything about that....so what does one do when all the behavioural therapy doesn't work? all the meds don't work? mindfulness and meditation doesn't work? "Father, forgive them" doesn't work? "The universe is Maya" doesn't work? and you still feel the majority of people are no better than mindless, clueless imbeciles and you have lost all hope for the future of mankind and you find it utterly depressing and soul destroying...what then?
I asked myself one simple question. "What do you want to Live with in your Heart?" Once I became comfortable in my own skin everything else began to fall into place, because while I was waiting for the Universe the Universe was waiting for me. Once I had decided, the Universe fell into place behind me.



You are not so powerless that you can't empower yourself.
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