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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #81  
Old 20-02-2011, 06:34 PM
Shabda Shabda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldr44
Well, that would make my nonphysical teacher wrong. Since he is a Master, its had to imagine him being wrong. He said there wasn't a hell, however he has spoken of the hell that you create for yourself. He once told me a story of a Jewish man who believed that Moses was god, when he passed there was a bit of confusion for him as his belief wasn't correct. So, a show of power was created where "god" beat Moses in a display of great lightning bolts. Was it necessary? yes, as Moses is a prophet not god.

As far as being aware of your infinite being status, you learn from much experience in the nonphysical (mental) planes long before you're allowed to incarnate. Not only are you infinite, you are also multidimensional. You have aspects of your self in many realities. This is taken from Seth, who stops by my house on ocassion to say hello. He is good friends with my teacher, who is my wifes spirit guide (who is know as The Master of All Things). He and many others are channeled through my wife. Not sure what your thought is on channeling, however it is most real.

If you've read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth you would have seen The Master of All Things name there.
sorry, your non physical master is no master at all...he/she/it is wrong...my wife does the same, so i understand your believing in your wife, however that changes nothing, you cant possibly truly know until youve left the body behind and look for yourself...these entities may call themselves masters, but they are not, and their scope is of a very limited nature, and still within the worlds of duality, and none who reside here are masters...there are hells on the astral plane, this is fact....and im aware of what one learns about themselves on all of the mental planes, for i am there as well...ive met every different "aspect" of myself on all planes, so i do not disagree with you about that...
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"Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all... I belong to the Beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know, first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being."
Rumi
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  #82  
Old 20-02-2011, 06:41 PM
AngelBreeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldr44
There are many Bible verses which are suggestive of reincarnation. One episode in particular from the healing miracles of Christ seems to point to reincarnation:

"And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)

The disciples ask the Lord if the man himself could have committed the sin that led to his blindness. Given the fact that the man has been blind from birth, we are confronted with a provocative question. When could he have made such transgressions as to make him blind at birth? The only conceivable answer is in some prenatal state. The question as posed by the disciples explicitly presupposes prenatal existence. It will also be noted that Christ says nothing to dispel or correct the presupposition. Here is incontrovertible support for a doctrine of human preexistence.


Let's go a little further into John 9:1 (KJV) to see what this Scripture is actually making reference to. Jesus continues to speak:

"I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When He had thus spoken, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) he went His way therefore, and washed, and came seeing." -- JOHN 9:4-7 (KJV)

These Scriptures certainly are not suggesting anything about reincarnation. Many people in the world are born with disabilities which are certainly not attributed to reincarnation. In effect, what is actually being said is that the power of God is being made manifest in Jesus Christ so as to teach un-Believers to actually see the power of God that gave sight to the man who was blind!

Indeed, there are many today who are blind and who do not see!

And when Jesus made clay of the spittle and the man went to the pool of Siloam to wash, the man was exhibiting his FAITH in Jesus to heal him. And the Power of God manifested immediately in the man so that others who knew him before as being blind could see that now he could see and they all glorified God!
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  #83  
Old 20-02-2011, 06:58 PM
Perry J Perry J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBreeze
Let's go a little further into John 9:1 (KJV) to see what this Scripture is actually making reference to. Jesus continues to speak:

"I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When He had thus spoken, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) he went His way therefore, and washed, and came seeing." -- JOHN 9:4-7 (KJV)

These Scriptures certainly are not suggesting anything about reincarnation. Many people in the world are born with disabilities which are certainly not attributed to reincarnation. In effect, what is actually being said is that the power of God is being made manifest in Jesus Christ so as to teach un-Believers to actually see the power of God that gave sight to the man who was blind!

Indeed, there are many today who are blind and who do not see!

And when Jesus made clay of the spittle and the man went to the pool of Siloam to wash, the man was exhibiting his FAITH in Jesus to heal him. And the Power of God manifested immediately in the man so that others who knew him before as being blind could see that now he could see and they all glorified God!

This is not to be taken, either, as some proof of reincarnation in the Bible. Maybe it's a fragment left from an otherwise meticulous attempt to erase everything about reincarnation?
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  #84  
Old 20-02-2011, 07:26 PM
Shabda Shabda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBreeze
Let's go a little further into John 9:1 (KJV) to see what this Scripture is actually making reference to. Jesus continues to speak:

"I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When He had thus spoken, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) he went His way therefore, and washed, and came seeing." -- JOHN 9:4-7 (KJV)

These Scriptures certainly are not suggesting anything about reincarnation. Many people in the world are born with disabilities which are certainly not attributed to reincarnation. In effect, what is actually being said is that the power of God is being made manifest in Jesus Christ so as to teach un-Believers to actually see the power of God that gave sight to the man who was blind!

Indeed, there are many today who are blind and who do not see!

And when Jesus made clay of the spittle and the man went to the pool of Siloam to wash, the man was exhibiting his FAITH in Jesus to heal him. And the Power of God manifested immediately in the man so that others who knew him before as being blind could see that now he could see and they all glorified God!
how would you know what they are suggesting or arent? did you write these books? then you have no idea, you BELIEVE is all, which is at best a double edged sword...
__________________
"Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all... I belong to the Beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know, first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being."
Rumi
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  #85  
Old 20-02-2011, 07:29 PM
Zeliar791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabda
how would you know what they are suggesting or arent? did you write these books? then you have no idea, you BELIEVE is all, which is at best a double edged sword...

She just likes to bait people into attacking her. We all have our hobbies I guess...
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  #86  
Old 20-02-2011, 07:42 PM
Shabda Shabda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeliar791
She just likes to bait people into attacking her. We all have our hobbies I guess...
i know, but im hoping she'll actually try to answer one of my questions without a prejudiced bible verse, actually in her own words, because then the truth will be self evident...
__________________
"Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all... I belong to the Beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know, first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being."
Rumi
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  #87  
Old 20-02-2011, 07:55 PM
Baldr44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBreeze
Let's go a little further into John 9:1 (KJV) to see what this Scripture is actually making reference to. Jesus continues to speak:

"I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When He had thus spoken, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) he went His way therefore, and washed, and came seeing." -- JOHN 9:4-7 (KJV)

These Scriptures certainly are not suggesting anything about reincarnation. Many people in the world are born with disabilities which are certainly not attributed to reincarnation. In effect, what is actually being said is that the power of God is being made manifest in Jesus Christ so as to teach un-Believers to actually see the power of God that gave sight to the man who was blind!

Indeed, there are many today who are blind and who do not see!

And when Jesus made clay of the spittle and the man went to the pool of Siloam to wash, the man was exhibiting his FAITH in Jesus to heal him. And the Power of God manifested immediately in the man so that others who knew him before as being blind could see that now he could see and they all glorified God!

Actually, the idea is found in the oldest traditions of Western civilization, as well as being taught throughout the ancient Near East and Orient. And there is solid evidence that during its first centuries, Christianity did indeed impart what it had learned about the pre-existence of souls and their reimbodiment.

Josephus, the Jewish historian who lived during most of the first century AD, records in his Jewish War (3, 8, 5) and in his Antiquities of the Jews (18, 1, 3) that reincarnation was taught widely in his day, while his contemporary in Alexandria, Philo Judaeus, in various of his writings, also refers to reimbodiment in one or another form. Moreover, there are passages of the New Testament that can be understood only if seen against the background of pre-existence of souls as a generally held belief. For instance, Matthew (16:13-14) records that when Jesus asked his disciples "Whom do men say that I am?" they replied that some people said he was John the Baptist (who had been executed only a few years before the question was asked). Others thought he was Elijah, or Jeremiah, or another of the prophets. Later in Matthew (17:13), far from rejecting the concept of rebirth Jesus tells his disciples that John the Baptist was Elijah.

John (9:2-4) reports that the disciples asked Jesus whether a blindman had sinned or his parents that he had been born blind. Jesus replied that it was in order that the works of God may be made manifest in the blind man, that is, that the law of cause and effect might be fulfilled. Or, as St. Paul phrased the thought: we reap what we sow. The blind man could not have sown the seeds of his blindness in his present body, but must have done so in a previous lifetime.

The earliest Christians, especially those who were members of one or other of the Gnostic sects, such as the Valentinians, Ophites and Ebionites, included reimbodiment among their important teachings. For them it enabled fulfillment of the law -- karma -- as well as providing the means for the soul to purify itself from the muddy qualities resulting from its immersion in matter and the egoism we have developed in the first stages of our journey through earth life.

After the original generations of Christians, we find the early Church Fathers, such as Justin Martyr (AD 100-l65), St. Clement of Alexandria ( AD 150-220), and Origen ( AD 185-254) teaching the pre-existence of souls, taking up reincarnation or one or another aspect of reimbodiment. Examples are scattered through Origen's works, especially Contra Celsum (1, xxxii), where he asks: "Is it not rational that souls should be introduced into bodies, in accordance with their merits and previous deeds . . . ?" And in De Principiis he says that "the soul has neither beginning nor end." St. Jerome (AD 340-420), translator of the Latin version of the Bible known as the Vulgate, in his Letter to Demetrias (a Roman matron), states that some Christian sects in his day taught a form of reincarnation as an esoteric doctrine, imparting it to a few "as a traditional truth which was not to be divulged."

Synesius (AD 370-480), Bishop of Ptolemais, also taught the concept, and in a prayer that has survived, he says: "Father, grant that my soul may merge into the light, and be no more thrust back into the illusion of earth." Others of his Hymns, such as number III, contain lines clearly stating his views, and also pleas that he may be so purified that rebirth on earth will no longer be necessary. In a thesis on dreams, Synesius writes: "It is possible by labor and time, and a transition into other lives, for the imaginative soul to emerge from this dark abode." This passage reminds us of verses in the Revelation of John (3:12), with its symbolic, initiatory language leading into: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out."

We need at this point to recall what happened after Constantine declared Christianity to be the state religion of the Roman empire. The church forgot the injunction about rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's only, and allowed itself to become entwined with the administration of Caesar's realm -- the political arena. Its destiny became linked to the fate of the empire itself and its rulers.

I love this stuff. Give me more AngelBreeze. I know, I know I really shouldn't encourage her. It really doesn't matter because the truth will come eventually to all of us. That truth is not to be found in any form of religion.
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  #88  
Old 20-02-2011, 07:58 PM
Zeliar791
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabda
i know, but im hoping she'll actually try to answer one of my questions without a prejudiced bible verse, actually in her own words, because then the truth will be self evident...

I don't think she has that ability. She is pretty much one track. She isn't even aware of herself.
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  #89  
Old 20-02-2011, 08:18 PM
Baldr44
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabda
sorry, your non physical master is no master at all...he/she/it is wrong...my wife does the same, so i understand your believing in your wife, however that changes nothing, you cant possibly truly know until youve left the body behind and look for yourself...these entities may call themselves masters, but they are not, and their scope is of a very limited nature, and still within the worlds of duality, and none who reside here are masters...there are hells on the astral plane, this is fact....and im aware of what one learns about themselves on all of the mental planes, for i am there as well...ive met every different "aspect" of myself on all planes, so i do not disagree with you about that...

I believe you simply experience that which you expect to experience. I'm not believing in my wife, I do believe in my wifes spirit guide. You're saying that he is not a master dosen't change the fact that he is the Master Of All Things. He would find it quite amusing though. The idea of multidimensional spirit has been discussed by Seth who has also been channeled by my wife. He stops by and vents about humans inability to hear him. The last time he was by, he said that the Seth group took a cruise and he said , "They take me out to the middle of the god da..ed ocean when they don't even hear me on dry land." As I've often stated, it really doesn't matter as it all comes out in the end of this physical existence.
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  #90  
Old 20-02-2011, 08:21 PM
Shabda Shabda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldr44
I believe you simply experience that which you expect to experience. I'm not believing in my wife, I do believe in my wifes spirit guide. You're saying that he is not a master dosen't change the fact that he is the Master Of All Things. He would find it quite amusing though. The idea of multidimensional spirit has been discussed by Seth who has also been channeled by my wife. He stops by and vents about humans inability to hear him. The last time he was by, he said that the Seth group took a cruise and he said , "They take me out to the middle of the god da..ed ocean when they don't even hear me on dry land." As I've often stated, it really doesn't matter as it all comes out in the end of this physical existence.
i dont disagree with you...
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"Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all... I belong to the Beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know, first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being."
Rumi
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