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08-11-2010, 06:30 PM
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On the 7th, over some hot chocolate, I suddenly had this bizarre thought regarding this...
Since no one saw my U-Boat sink, and there is no confirmation as to how it sank...
then I guess I never died in the first place and maybe that's why I'm alive again.
And I guess that's why Doenitz had said, "We have lost him and recovered him." (to quote from Wolfgang Frank's 'Enemy Submarine')
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08-11-2010, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapitan_Prien
On the 7th, over some hot chocolate, I suddenly had this bizarre thought regarding this...
Since no one saw my U-Boat sink, and there is no confirmation as to how it sank...
then I guess I never died in the first place and maybe that's why I'm alive again.
And I guess that's why Doenitz had said, "We have lost him and recovered him." (to quote from Wolfgang Frank's 'Enemy Submarine')
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Pretty cryptic, as my friend Dannion would say..!
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09-11-2010, 07:07 PM
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*laughs* I thought so myself...amazing what a cup of hot choccy can do for the ol' brain cells in the morning!
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16-11-2010, 05:59 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resonance
Thanks for posting this, Kapitan Prien. I find this topic fascinating although anything to do with time that isn't linear I stay away from normally as I can't get my human mind wrapped around an idea such as all time existing at once.
The thing that strikes me every time I see references to anything that has to do with Schroedinger's Cat or a past isn't set, though, is what has been found in quantum mechanics, and which you mention in your post. It's us, the observers, that make the sub-atomic particles take a specific form. The question then becomes: what is an observer? If only humans have that ability, then, definitely, anything that hasn't been observed hasn't happened (such as the tree in the forest). But I, for one, find that human focus curious. It would be more logical to me (if we can even use "logic" for this) that any kind of consciousness CAN have that effect. Then it becomes a question of defining consciousness. If an animal can have that effect, the cat can definitely not be both alive and dead at one point in time if we acknowledge that it has its own consciousness. And what about life in general? Maybe that is the force that gives the ability to collapse quantum particles into a fixed state? Or maybe there is a greater consciousness that CAN do it?
Any thoughts on this?
With much love
R
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Basically the difference in consciousness between Schrodinger (or you) and the cat is awareness of the possibility. If the cat can imagine the possibility,then the cat can choose or set its intention. If not...your awareness will tend to override, all else equal.
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17-11-2010, 08:04 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Catalina Island, California
Posts: 2,699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Basically the difference in consciousness between Schrodinger (or you) and the cat is awareness of the possibility. If the cat can imagine the possibility,then the cat can choose or set its intention. If not...your awareness will tend to override, all else equal.
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IDK, I tend to feel that any consciousness has the capability for setting intention. In my mind it might be possible for trees, rocks to possess a kind of consciousness --though not the same as ours. Theirs extends over longer time periods and they don't have the ability to affect a lot of changes. But I believe even a rock does have some ability to set intention.
As I said before, a rock or copper within the rock can assent at some level if it wants to be part of the ocean, and then sea life and then a person. Somehow, it will be at the right place, right time.
Too much? Yeah, I understand. But if, as has been hypothesized, strings of energy "percolate" out of a Universal Field of energy to create all that is, then all of it has the characteristics of it's Creator--consciousness, awareness of possibility and intention.
IsleWalker - Lora
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18-11-2010, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Basically the difference in consciousness between Schrodinger (or you) and the cat is awareness of the possibility. If the cat can imagine the possibility,then the cat can choose or set its intention. If not...your awareness will tend to override, all else equal.
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Hi 7luminaries
I see what you mean, but isn't it a bit far-fetched to think that a cat doesn't have that ability? I mean, all animals, and who knows down to what level of life, senses the environment and interacts with it. So to me it boils down to expectations of the environment as a definition of what should collapse the quantum potential and "fix" concepts into the material world (intention of how things "should" be).
If this wasn't the case, then, as you say, everything - including all life on Earth with the one exception of us humans - wouldn't exist in itself until "thought of" by us. That leads to some very big holes if we acknowledge evolution in any form
With much love
Resonance
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25-11-2010, 06:49 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,089
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The experiment at a philosophical level shows that a person is able to change their mind being able to change past decisions not the past because the past does not exist. We in metaphysics have known this for a long time.
Last edited by lemex : 25-11-2010 at 10:15 PM.
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27-11-2010, 07:26 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Catalina Island, California
Posts: 2,699
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Great point Lemex, and an important distinction-past decisions versus past.
But isn't the net effect the same? If I change decisions, I change my life and those of many around me, thus, the past. Right?
Maybe it has to do with opening up more potentialities in the past. They may or may not be activated, but they may exist whereas they couldn't have if I had made different decision. [Now I'm getting confused. ]
Isle
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28-11-2010, 07:00 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsleWalker
Great point Lemex, and an important distinction-past decisions versus past.
But isn't the net effect the same? If I change decisions, I change my life and those of many around me, thus, the past. Right?
Maybe it has to do with opening up more potentialities in the past. They may or may not be activated, but they may exist whereas they couldn't have if I had made different decision. [Now I'm getting confused. ]
Isle
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Now you got me on this one. This is a paradox. If you were able to effect what we change (of or) in the past you wouldn't be aware of the decision or even of the change that happened, it would be invisible, yet is this not what we try to achieve, some awareness of it. Theoretically though you're able to make a different choice now but can't. We place ourselves in the past that does not exist.
The thing about the experiment is even though science is guessing I like the direction it takes and it takes many liberties but I see is more about (comic) communication. The pattern of the universe. The difficulty I have with the outcome of the experiment is this, it is what I would expect to happen. I'm not surprised by it and wonder if many others really are and why scientist are. Are many people really surprised by it? I must confess I feel a little naive now because they are telling me I was supposed to be. There are many questions I'd like to ask them but we're not allowed to. But until they put a 3rd, 4th, and 5th splitter along the path I'm going to leave my own guess open. Until we go beyond making a mere 2 observations at one time and open it to say 5 observations in the path and began to see some paradoxes only then may learn how complex past is and if it can be tested as real.
The key here unlike past experiments where we end observation in every respect we continue the observation. In a way you are the splitter and it's a good concept to know.
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28-11-2010, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
In 2002, scientists carried out an amazing experiment, which showed that particles of light "photons" knew -- in advance −- what their distant twins would do in the future. They tested the communication between pairs of photons -- whether to be either a wave or a particle. Researchers stretched the distance one of the photons had to take to reach its detector, so that the other photon would hit its own detector first. The photons taking this path already finished their journeys -− they either collapse into a particle or don't before their twin encounters a scrambling device. Somehow, the particles acted on this information before it happened, and across distances instantaneously as if there was no space or time between them. They decided not to become particles before their twin ever encountered the scrambler. It doesn't matter how we set up the experiment. Our mind and its knowledge is the only thing that determines how they behave. Experiments consistently confirm these observer-dependent effects.
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interesting, are you taking about quantum entanglement? do you have a reference to this experiment please?
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