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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #21  
Old 08-09-2018, 03:27 AM
kuurt kuurt is offline
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 147
 
Yeah, but how can you think in terms of pieces if you're choosing forgiveness? Wouldn't a choice for forgiveness be a choice for wholeness?

Quote:
if i kill and eat you keeping my chemical processes running am i out of alignment with wholeness ?

One thing is for sure, if he doesn't forgive you, then he's out of alignment with wholeness.
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2018, 06:39 AM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 754
 
Hello.

Considering post#2.

Is the act of terminating someone else's life for the purpose of prolonging your own an act motivated by self interest?

petex
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2018, 03:26 PM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Hello dagmar ,Honza, falling leaves, white pegasus ,Miss Hepburn, Sky123-- and any others who may feel like joining in.

If choosing (big if) "being of the whole" as a reasoned/ reasonable description/representation of "wholeness", what/how/why is required to turn this sort of mental concept of logical inevitability---if that is an acceptable though makeshift representation of that description---into a realised experience?

Not a trick question nor rhetorical, honestly hoping to be able share others thoughts (some already expressed/contributed completely or in part I think.

Shuffle, whoops, down, up, left, right, wrong---onward.
In company, agreeing or otherwise, would be great(Imo). petex
The short answer I think (hm ironic effect) to stop thinking and start listening.

Long answer is to find some way to quiet your mind long enough so that God can come in. Prayer is good for this. You go into your heart and feelings and then state your thoughts. Then you stop thinking and just listen. The tide will come in.

Attempting to use the mind to turn a concept into an experience will only give the experience of illusion. Go the other way and focus on the experience and afterwards allow the mental to organize it.
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:50 PM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Hello winter light.

An additional suggestion is to see the mental concept as being on the way toward the adoption of a perspective which then needs to cross a threshold to become realised experience.

The mental concept being the product of thought, perhaps from personal pondering, perhaps from being inspired by reading of the thoughts and/or the example of others, perhaps from other influences--and regrettably not all benign. (The judging of which is a whole other debate).

If the mental concept is of such a nature that it offers a change in perspective, then the individual concerned may choose to adopt that perspective if it seems valid--the sense of validity arising from a number of factors.

Then the crossing of the threshold into realised experience--basically, walking the walk, acting in accord with your convictions, practicing what you preach, and so on.

In some understanding this may not be considered as realised experience, but perhaps real enough for us to be known by our deeds?

petex
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  #25  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:21 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Hello winter light.

An additional suggestion is to see the mental concept as being on the way toward the adoption of a perspective which then needs to cross a threshold to become realised experience.

The mental concept being the product of thought, perhaps from personal pondering, perhaps from being inspired by reading of the thoughts and/or the example of others, perhaps from other influences--and regrettably not all benign. (The judging of which is a whole other debate).

If the mental concept is of such a nature that it offers a change in perspective, then the individual concerned may choose to adopt that perspective if it seems valid--the sense of validity arising from a number of factors.

Then the crossing of the threshold into realised experience--basically, walking the walk, acting in accord with your convictions, practicing what you preach, and so on.

In some understanding this may not be considered as realised experience, but perhaps real enough for us to be known by our deeds?

petex
Yes good points. I see now I was coming from a bias and giving up on some of that which makes up a meaningful life experience. So in the spirit of the topic please forgive my harsh outlook and I'll adjust my perspective.

What I think you are describing is the process of creativity. Where we take a simple experience or idea and can transform it into an object of beauty. And in doing so whatever it is becomes realized.

Still though a quiet mind is essential to this process. Listening is a form of surrendering our self awareness so that something greater can arise from the experiences.
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  #26  
Old 11-09-2018, 09:59 PM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Hello winter light.

As mentioned earlier--pleased to explore in company-agreeing or otherwise. Graciousness is an added and uplifting bonus. Thank you.

I wonder if the quiet mind finds quietude not only in silence but also in the space becoming available when not preoccupied by demands to provide the means to acquire significance?

If so, then it seems that humility has a powerful utility function in this respect.

Is it this which particularly qualifies the meek to be described as the true custodians of the earth? For what is inheritance but something passed on?

petex
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2018, 03:51 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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I have some issues with thinking of inheritance because it implies some exclusion. To me that seems like an incongruence in the teachings versus universal salvation. So how to see beyond that?

In theory, if you remove all of the moral implications, the opposite of humility is just myopia or tunnel vision. Where one is so attached as not being able to see the larger picture. So that blindness leads to a loss of control and loss of power to be an apt custodian. That would one way to look at it with logic. Yes I think the quiet mind opens up the space and helps with this issue.

I think the term "inheritance" means more than some entitlement or reward to the chosen ones. Instead I interpret as a deeper message addressing our connection with life. To our true source referred to as the Father. So as you submit to the source you gain everything. And as you realign with the source you regain everything. Then humility becomes recognizing when you are out of alignment, and admitting you are out of alignment (submission/forgiveness).

And if you look at "the meek" as an action, rather than some static population of people, then it includes all of those who find it within themselves to turn their hearts. So this inheritance is available to all when they become ready to realign. As each heart turns it makes the journey easier for the rest. A collective transformation.

To me the absolute master of humility + peace = power from the last century is Morihei Ueshiba the founder of Aikido. Take a look at his teachings and I think you will find they are happily aligned with Jesus' teachings. Sure enough here is a quote that addresses your questions directly:
If your heart is large enough to envelop your adversaries, you can see right through them and avoid their attacks. And once you envelop them, you will be able to guide them along the path indicated to you by heaven and earth.
Morihei Ueshiba
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:03 AM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Hello winter light.

It is good to read of your thoughts.

The "meek" to which I refer are simply those-whoever-with no inclination to self aggrandisement which--Imo--makes those whoever more fit for purpose as custodians of the earth because they have space available in their mind not preoccupied with thoughts or intentions of acquiring status/significance.

Inheritance in this context understood simply as the transfer of custodianship, not of a possession passed on to a/some mythical previously "chosen", but to whoever may best suited to perform that role and chosen for that purpose.(ideally that would be "all", and perhaps may one day be so).

Such choice possibly never considered, never considered necessary--until proven to be necessary. At which point/time such choice needs to be considered carefully and objectively, including looking at the possibility that the mind set which plays a part in causing the necessity is a mind set which cannot be relied upon to remove that necessity? Again, ideally, such consideration leading to a common shift in mind set, so all involved.


petex
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2018, 11:22 PM
Tortoise Walks Tortoise Walks is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 128
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
I would think the first step would be learning to erase the lines in the sand. Because you can't be whole if you continue thinking in terms of pieces?

I really like this and find it to be true for me FallingLeaves! Thanks...

Maybe for me it's also acceptance that the lines will be swept away of it's own accord as well... without requiring my "effort" or "energy" to do so... toddlers... saboteurs... tides... waves.... wind... rhythmic, harmonious, or cacophonic... What IS has it's own way of doing so - such that I may grow aware and shift my energy to a new unfoldment... each and every time...

it's like allowing limitless new beginnings...

:-)

TW
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  #30  
Old 14-09-2018, 02:06 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Hello winter light.

It is good to read of your thoughts.

The "meek" to which I refer are simply those-whoever-with no inclination to self aggrandisement which--Imo--makes those whoever more fit for purpose as custodians of the earth because they have space available in their mind not preoccupied with thoughts or intentions of acquiring status/significance.

Inheritance in this context understood simply as the transfer of custodianship, not of a possession passed on to a/some mythical previously "chosen", but to whoever may best suited to perform that role and chosen for that purpose.(ideally that would be "all", and perhaps may one day be so).

Hello petex. Good talking with you and thanks this topic has been helpful for me as well. And as you and Miss Hepburn stated prior, forgiveness is key to the Christian path and I also believe this too.

For a long time I had been bothered by the "meek shall inherit the earth" thing. I feel better about it now after having a chance to work it out. As far as the material perspective goes I do not feel qualified to speculate on who will inherit what or why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Such choice possibly never considered, never considered necessary--until proven to be necessary. At which point/time such choice needs to be considered carefully and objectively, including looking at the possibility that the mind set which plays a part in causing the necessity is a mind set which cannot be relied upon to remove that necessity? Again, ideally, such consideration leading to a common shift in mind set, so all involved.
The expression I have heard for what you described is, a problem cannot be solved at the level it is created. So when the mental becomes part of the problem that is why a spiritual perspective is needed to open things up.

Another way to describe why forgiveness is important for creativity is because it gives us a chance to explore experiences without fear. And then if things turn out not as intended, we can begin again. This leads to freedom and a much gentler path through eternity.
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