Lets do an experiment

[Horse]

Originally Posted by astralsuzy

Barnacle and psychoslice, I do not understand why you visit this thread, astral projection when you do not believe in it. If I did not believe something I would not read about it.

I wanna believe in astral projection. If I have evidence that its real, then I'll keep trying to leave my body while in sleep paralysis. Conversely, if its just lucid dreaming, then I'm already there, I enter lucid dreams from sleep paralysis all the time.

Originally Posted by Jenny Crow

How would you describe remote viewing and how would you say it differed from astral projecting, if at all?

Coordinate Remote Viewing (CRV) is the trained ability to obtain accurate psychically derived data on persons, places, things and events anywhere in time and space, using only a pen, paper and one’s mind.

(In AP, the adept simply project from Lucid dreaming or Meditation which is using only one's own mind)

Remote Viewing is an innate ability that all humans possess, but like language, it must be learned. When utilizing this methodology, you are not in an altered state. You are fully conscious, alert and in a state of "high attention." - I know, this is nothing new as other members may say.
I only mentioned this as it is definitely has been experimented on,
and because of what it has in common with AP.
Anybody interested about the research and how the method was developed, just search for Ingo Swann/CRV.

[astralsuzy]

Originally Posted by Barnacle

I wanna believe in astral projection. If I have evidence that its real, then I'll keep trying to leave my body while in sleep paralysis. Conversely, if its just lucid dreaming, then I'm already there, I enter lucid dreams from sleep paralysis all the time.

It is real. I believe in telling the truth and trying to be a good person. I would not lie. Many times I have been awake. I am aware of what is going on around me. I have felt my inner self moving out of my body. Sometimes it is very fast. I keep travelling for quite a while. It feels like I am physically out of my body as it feels very real. If this was not real I would not be wasting my time practicing to ap. I love doing it. It is a fantastic experience. My favourite experience is flying high and looking down at the city, ocean or beach. If you are aware and can see well, it is like you are physically flying but you are spiritually flying. I never have any bad experiences. I am not able to prove it to anyone. I am hoping to one day. I am not good enough. I keep having problems. When I get out of my body for a short while, I zap back into my body again. I think it happens because I think it is going to happen. I do not try to think that. I also zap back into my body when I am trying to go to some place. I think it happens for the same reason. Now I realise what I am doing wrong, I seem to be able to stay out of my body longer. I did not have this problem before. I have always had a problem trying to go to places. Occasionally I would succeed. It is easy to mess things up. You can leave your body in other ways. It does not have to be sp.

[amylou]

Originally Posted by AstralAspirer

Thanks for your reply. Well I could understand your feelings with having such elemental experiences in the near physical. How about the ability to experience a deeper "non physical'' realm where ones "imagination" may not be able to conjure up a scenario for you? For example how can the brain imagine something it has no conception of in the first place. Do you think that you might have been too quickly dismissive?

So what let's say you do this and you see a strange dog in your yard. Then you get up and look out the window and that dog is in the exact spot doing the exact thing you saw... Is this not something other than imagination?

[amylou]

One morning I hadn't gotten out of bed at all and the door to the bedroom was closed. My husband was in the livingroom. I went to the livingroom via OBE and saw exactly where he was sitting, how he was sitting, what exactly he was doing, and what was around him. When I got back into my body I went to the livingroom and everything was just as I saw it.

Another morning he was getting ready for work in the next room. Same scenario. Door closed and I hadn't gotten out of bed. So I OBE into the livingroom and watched exactly what he did. He went over to the closet to get something he almost forgot. Then went to the table and grabbed the keys and a few other things, then out the door. How could I have known this?

Another morning I had some extreme pain in my toe. I was trying to go to sleep but I couldn't because my toe was throbbing. Then I astral projected and all the pain was gone.

But I guess all this was imagination. It's amazing, because right now if I close my eyes and try to imagine the color blue, I couldn't because my imagination and visualization skills suck.

I wasn't going to keep commenting here, but I am so tired of people attacking the astral projection community, telling us that what we believe is stupid or not real. You don't see me running around to forums that I completely disagree with just to start an argument or make someone upset.

[CrystalSong]

Originally Posted by Niebla0007

Coordinate Remote Viewing (CRV) is the trained ability to obtain accurate psychically derived data on persons, places, things and events anywhere in time and space, using only a pen, paper and one’s mind.

(In AP, the adept simply project from Lucid dreaming or Meditation which is using only one's own mind)

Remote Viewing is an innate ability that all humans possess, but like language, it must be learned. When utilizing this methodology, you are not in an altered state. You are fully conscious, alert and in a state of "high attention." - I know, this is nothing new as other members may say.
I only mentioned this as it is definitely has been experimented on,
and because of what it has in common with AP.
Anybody interested about the research and how the method was developed, just search for Ingo Swann/CRV.

As Niebla0007 says, this is tried and true and repeatable over and over again. For those hard core doubting Thomas's who have a hard time believing anything which they themselves haven't personally experienced or isn't mainstream please do a little research into how our Military uses remote viewing and has entire squads of remote viewers working in many aspects of ground warfare and Intel.

And not just the Military - there are remote viewer organizations around the country for hire for anything from finding missing children to renters who skipped out, to trying to find hidden money's off shores, to archaeological finds...you name it and a remote viewer is likely to find it.
And not just our country either, numerous countries and businesses employ remote viewers to stay ahead and apprised of the competition.

We can not believe it if we wish but it won't change the fact its being used in a variety of ways by those who've given themselves permission to do it.

RV is pretty low level in the Bigger Picture, there's other forms of seeing places where you body is Not at and being able to see much more and bring it back with near total recall.
While AP is very awesome because its the way in which you feel most present ie can feel temperature, see your body, full color spectrum, hear sounds etc etc, it's a wild card because it is much harder to do it reliably on command and go where you want to go.

There are at least 4 other ways of traveling and at least 3 of those ways you can with a fairly good accuracy, go where you want to go and when you want to, with very little prep. These ways however are not as full bodied visceral of an experience as AP, so depending on the reason for travel depends on the most effective form to use.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by astralsuzy

It is real. I believe in telling the truth and trying to be a good person. I would not lie. Many times I have been awake. I am aware of what is going on around me. I have felt my inner self moving out of my body. Sometimes it is very fast. I keep travelling for quite a while....

What you described there mirrors my lucid dream experiences. They feel real (especially when I think that I might be astral traveling). I fly over cities. The main problem I have is I wake up too easily. If you can do it while you're awake, then it can't really be lucid dreaming though.

Originally Posted by amylou

So what let's say you do this and you see a strange dog in your yard. Then you get up and look out the window and that dog is in the exact spot doing the exact thing you saw... Is this not something other than imagination?

Obviously thats evidence of a real psychic experience. Unless its a dog you know, and this dog is in your yard regularly, the statistical proability of this being a coincidence are such that it would be insane to believe these two events coincided by chance. If you can do this, then you can easily do the experiment I described. It doesn't have to be my house, it could be your next door neighbours.

You mentioned your experience with your bedroom door being closed. In astral project do you open the door with your hand, or do you have to walk through the door? As for the pain experience, this is really interesting. One of my main motivations for wanting astral projection to be real, is because it implies that we have a way out extremely harsh situations. For example, I'm not scared of dying, but the idea of being tortured disturbs me, if astral projection is real then maybe its possible to leave the body so that the person could escape this exceptionally harsh situation. Hundreds of Falun Dafa followers have been tortured to death by the Chinese communism party and plenty more are being tortured right now so they would certainly find this useful.

I know that I still feel pain and other physical sensations such as hunger, and the need to go to the toilet when I'm in lucid dreams, so I suppose a lack of these sensations would be a good way to tell the difference between dreaming and genuine astral projection.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by Jenny Crow

Yes, I agree that a projection can come to an end of its own accord - but that does't always happen

Jenny Crow

Of course it doesn't always happen but if a projection didn't have to come to an end then no one who can project would be on these forums typing, they would be off in projections that last forever. Either a person ends a projection themselves or eventually it will come to an end naturally. Unfortunately even the masters cannot make a projection last forever, otherwise they would certainly do so and wouldn't be known on Earth as masters since they are never here to tell about their projections.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

There is always an excuse why it can't be done, yet they say that they can travel to fare away places and describe these places without any problem, but to come to your place and see a simple piece of paper with a code, it just can't be done, hellooo, do you with we are dumb lol.

I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about the fact that astral travel doesn't happen in the physical dimension. Asking someone to visit a physical location and see something that is in the physical dimension during an astral projection is like asking someone to go the state of Oklahoma and visit New York City at the same time. Since they are in a totally different location than where New York City exists it makes it impossible. If you have your doubts about astral projection then quite frankly that is your concern. If you experienced astral projection I am sure what has been said about why it's not possible would make sense to you. No one is capable of proving if astral projection exists to anyone but themselves. So if you're so interested in knowing then it's your obligation to put in the work necessary to experience astral projection, if you don't feel like doing the work and instead want to attempt to shoot holes in what others know then I am sure you can find a better place to waste your time and words.

[amylou]

Originally Posted by Barnacle

Obviously thats evidence of a real psychic experience. Unless its a dog you know, and this dog is in your yard regularly, the statistical proability of this being a coincidence are such that it would be insane to believe these two events coincided by chance. If you can do this, then you can easily do the experiment I described. It doesn't have to be my house, it could be your next door neighbours.

You mentioned your experience with your bedroom door being closed. In astral project do you open the door with your hand, or do you have to walk through the door? As for the pain experience, this is really interesting. One of my main motivations for wanting astral projection to be real, is because it implies that we have a way out extremely harsh situations. For example, I'm not scared of dying, but the idea of being tortured disturbs me, if astral projection is real then maybe its possible to leave the body so that the person could escape this exceptionally harsh situation. Hundreds of Falun Dafa followers have been tortured to death by the Chinese communism party and plenty more are being tortured right now so they would certainly find this useful.

I know that I still feel pain and other physical sensations such as hunger, and the need to go to the toilet when I'm in lucid dreams, so I suppose a lack of these sensations would be a good way to tell the difference between dreaming and genuine astral projection.

Yeah, I think a spider bit me that night and it was instant relief. Not only relief, but pure bliss. Anyway, I have to disagree with you saying that I could do this reading the piece of paper thing easily because it takes too much skill and that I don't have. I have the ability to observe vaguely what is going on in the next room by going into that room. As far as reading something, the letters and numbers change when I try to concentrate on them because things are just not 100% the same in the astral unless you are highly skilled.

Just because you are seeing what's there does not mean you'll see everything or exactly what's there. I've heard that we see about 1% of what's going on around us and the rest is in other dimensions. Those dimensions include the astral dimensions and there are other things there. Your thoughts also create, so if you are concentrating on a piece of paper and thinking too hard, you can't do it. I have no doubt that someone is skilled enough but I know I'm not. I can't even get to the place of no thought during meditation yet. Maybe one day when I'm 70 and have done this 50 billion times, but for now I really am not able.

I've been able to go outside my apartment and see people outside, kids playing with a ball and two adults having a conversation. A car driving by. But again, things aren't exactly the same. Like I might see a being in the astral that is outside that no humans can see simply because I am in the astral, I can see it and it starts to interact with me. Does that mean it wasn't real just because no one else saw that being? No. Mediums see spirits all the time that other people can't see. But these things (the kids and people I saw) are pretty easy to verify. As far as concentrating on a number or letter sequence goes.. that's just too hard. As stated, when your thoughts get in the way, the numbers keep changing. To say that the astral should be exactly like the physical dimension.. it's not the case.

If I could achieve remote viewing, that would work a lot better. But for now, I don't have much control over what happens. It's about skill. It's like the difference of someone being able to swim in the pool in their backyard and someone being an olympic swimmer. There are few people skilled enough to carry out such a thing.

To answer your question about the door, I think about wanting to be in the next room and then all of the sudden I'm there. Everything is done through thought. I usually feel an odd sensation when passing through a wall. A sort of vibrating feeling.